Why I think long term signing Carr was a mistake. (1 Viewer)

[ravenblade23x]

I will never advocate for tanking and just losing. I had a iron on Ricky Williams jersey and have seen enough losing! Y’all are crazy lol. Go out there and lose with 100% effort like a man. I don’t want to see people whiffing. Y’all may as well be falcon fans advocating that. Just because a QB is taken Early guarantees nothing. Dak was a fourth round pick and made the playoffs, hurts was a second round pick and was in the Super Bowl. Mahomes and Burrow’s don’t grow on trees.

I have no desire to tank.

Good read, I can't disagree with a thing. The things you discussed are long-term and big-picture, things that go over the heads of most fans, players, and even some staff.

When I look at every aspect of our coaching, talent, finances, and prospects going forward, nothing gets me excited. It would take a crazy good draft or a 6-0 start to make me believe we can return to being a consistent winner as things stand.

Thanks for that, I kind of knew going in that the post would get a lot of push back. I think most fans just want to watch descent football and I get that. Heck this Sept. I will likely be a lot happier that we have Carr when we are winning games.

 

[ravenblade23x]

wow, that's insightful. thanks for regurgitating the same old worn out junk that's been posted here 489 times in the past 2 months. And, bonus for dropping an Archie reference and calling 28 and 27 year olds out as aged.

Sorry I hurt you somehow it was not the point of the post. Yes some of this stuff has been talked about. I am not sure why when someone brings up a contrarian opinion things have to get nasty. You don't have to agree with me.

I was to young to catch Archie play for the Saint's but I have watched some old games. I never called 27-28 years old. I was just using it as a reference for the overall age of the the team.

Have a great season!!

 

[faceman]

Sure we can take them out, that's fine, but it does not change the fact that 1st round picks still have a higher chance of winning the SB's then those not chosen in the first round. Its not a narrative it's a fact backed up by data.

That goes for all positions. The vast majority of hall of famers were selected in the top half of the 1st round.
the % drops dramatically after that. The key is to get production out of all of your picks.

 

[MV2]

Some just don't want to be happy. SMH.

This signing is really a 2 year deal, but could be 3-4 years if he plays well. If we draft a QB then it's a perfect scenario to have a veteran to steady the ship while the young kid learns and develops into a starter. Especially if we draft Hooker.

 

[RJ in Lafayette]

The Saints are never going to fully rebuild under the current regime. I agree that the terms of the Carr signing were not unfavorable and that if the team's continues to dance on the edge of mediocrity, as I expect, there will come a point where there will be no more excuses, but I expect that point that will be after the 2024 season.

 

[ilvdsnts]

Sure we can take them out, that's fine, but it does not change the fact that 1st round picks still have a higher chance of winning the SB's then those not chosen in the first round. Its not a narrative it's a fact backed up by data.

No, if 12 of the 24 were 1st round picks, and the other 12 of 24 were not 1st round picks, then your odds are 50-50 either way.

 

[ravenblade23x]

I guess we were due one of these “gloom and doom” posts. Anyway,

like life you live for now and not tomorrow because no one it guaranteed it. The Saints are not worried about tomorrow.

Some just don't want to be happy. SMH.

This signing is really a 2 year deal, but could be 3-4 years if he plays well. If we draft a QB then it's a perfect scenario to have a veteran to steady the ship while the young kid learns and develops into a starter. Especially if we draft Hooker.

I don't think the post is all that doom and gloom. I said at the start that I am quite excited about watching Saints football in 2023. I think you can be both excited about the current prospects and still be forward thinking of the future of the team. Just because I don't love the Carr signing does not mean I can't enjoy the football played this year.

In fact once the choice was made to go with Carr, I have been very happy with the direction the team is trending in. We will likely win the South and have a home playoff game. If Nick Foles can win a SB then Carr can too.

I am both optimistic about the Saints chances of having a good run this year and yet still less so about the long term future, at least with the current coaching staff.

 

[Mojomajik9]

My thing with the let’s gut everything and do a rebuild is that it assumes that once you start the tailspin you can get out of it. Hey the Bengals got Burrow! Yeah after languishing for 30 years. Same with the Bills and Chiefs. There’s no guarantee that once you start down that road you can get out of it any time soon.

Also, having Carr makes the team more attractive to future coaches. Maybe DA fails but the next HC can at least come in and have something to build on.

i also don’t get the idea that if your team isn’t winning a Super Bowl then you tear it down. If that’s true then 20-25 teams should be in a constant state of a rebuild. Realistically who are the SB contenders? Maybe 5 teams, right? You don’t grow if you’re constantly starting over. And winning the division or getting to the playoffs isn’t anything to scoff at.

 

[Goatman Saint]

But here’s the thing. Carr has been a low upper level QB on the Raiders. Quite possibly the most dysfunctional team in the league. Give him a chance on a stable team with talent around him. This is now Allen’s baby. His career, and Pete’s live or die off this decision. He will be set up for success as any excuse has left. Let’s see how he does

 

[ravenblade23x]

No, if 12 of the 24 were 1st round picks, and the other 12 of 24 were not 1st round picks, then your odds are 50-50 either way.

Not quite. Since 2000 there have been 9 different Super Bowl Winning QB's that where first round picks. There have only been 6 that where not drafted in the first round. 1st round Qb's win the Super Bowls around 66% more often.

Some other interesting facts:

• Tom Brady is the only non 1st round QB to win more then 1 Super Bowl since 2000. 4 1st round QB's have one multiple rings in the same time period. (Ben R., Eli M., Payton M., and Patrick M.)
• Since 2009 8 1st round QB's made it to the Super Bowl but never won. There only 4 non 1st round QB's to make it and never win.
• 20 of the 32 projected starters in 2023 are all 1st round picks.

I just don't understand why there is so much push back about drafting a QB in the first round. It should not be that surprising that the best and most elite QB's are 1st round picks.

 

[rsmith2783]

I will never advocate for tanking and just losing. I had a iron on Ricky Williams jersey and have seen enough losing! Y’all are crazy lol. Go out there and lose with 100% effort like a man. I don’t want to see people whiffing. Y’all may as well be falcon fans advocating that. Just because a QB is taken Early guarantees nothing. Dak was a fourth round pick and made the playoffs, hurts was a second round pick and was in the Super Bowl. Mahomes and Burrow’s don’t grow on trees.

This is the reason why people are already talking about next year's #1 pick Caleb Williams this early. You have teams that are already making moves to prepare for it. I thought we were going to be one of them by purposefully retaining Allen, but by signing Carr, we're going to be in the middle of the pack.

 

[ravenblade23x]

The Saints WILL NEVER REBUILD. Might as well stop talking about a rebuild so you don't get yourself worked up as to why they won't start or do a rebuild. It's not going to happen. Even though the last couple of years did not go well, the Saints have a winning culture and the mindset of a winning franchise. Those types of franchises do not rebuild. See the Patriots, Steelers, Chiefs. They continue to draft and build up their teams and at some point, the old aging players fall by the wayside and the team keeps on trucking. Want to question this coaching staff? Go right ahead. Many of us are right there too. DA was always going to be given at least 3 years. People like to mention the Bengals situation. They have been rebuidling for years. They got lucky and Burrow fell in their lap and overnight, a franchise QB turned their fortunes around.

Do you know what each of the three teams have in common.

They drafted a QB in the 1st round.

Chiefs where coming off a 12-4 season and traded up from the 27th spot to grab Patrick M. They went 10-6 the next season with Smith as the QB.

Steeler drafted Kenny Pickett in the 1st round last year. You could make the argument that the Steeler are in rebuild. In fact there where players last year on the Steelers calling it a rebuild year.

The Patriots drafted Mac Jones in the 1st round in 2021. Missed the playoffs 2 out of the three years since Brady left. They are likely entering a rebuild themselves.

If you look at the Steeler and Patriots and how they are approaching life after a HOF QB, its night and day different then the Saints. Its may not be a full rebuild but it's clearly a reset. They know the window has closed and have drafted young QB's and trying to build back up.

 

[MV2]

I guess we were due one of these “gloom and doom” posts. Anyway,



I don't think the post is all that doom and gloom. I said at the start that I am quite excited about watching Saints football in 2023. I think you can be both excited about the current prospects and still be forward thinking of the future of the team. Just because I don't love the Carr signing does not mean I can't enjoy the football played this year.

In fact once the choice was made to go with Carr, I have been very happy with the direction the team is trending in. We will likely win the South and have a home playoff game. If Nick Foles can win a SB then Carr can too.

I am both optimistic about the Saints chances of having a good run this year and yet still less so about the long term future, at least with the current coaching staff.

So you're happy and optimistic yet you think it was a mistake? Perhaps you should edit the thread title.

 

[HouseCall]

My thing with the let’s gut everything and do a rebuild is that it assumes that once you start the tailspin you can get out of it. Hey the Bengals got Burrow! Yeah after languishing for 30 years. Same with the Bills and Chiefs. There’s no guarantee that once you start down that road you can get out of it any time soon.

Also, having Carr makes the team more attractive to future coaches. Maybe DA fails but the next HC can at least come in and have something to build on.

i also don’t get the idea that if your team isn’t winning a Super Bowl then you tear it down. If that’s true then 20-25 teams should be in a constant state of a rebuild. Realistically who are the SB contenders? Maybe 5 teams, right? You don’t grow if you’re constantly starting over. And winning the division or getting to the playoffs isn’t anything to scoff at.

This is what I’ve been saying for a long time. The NFL basement is paved with the mediocrity of teams that got to the bottom and never got themselves out.

The Bengals drafted near the top for decades and it wasn’t until a generational QB talent fell to them that their fortunes changed - but it wasn’t just that. That generational talent blew out his knee his rookie season which meant they again draft near the top and get Jamar Chase. So it’s not just sound drafting strategy but also fortune in the wake of misfortune also needs to happen.

Though the current strategy is complicated - it has allowed the Saints to be competitive rather than cellar dwellers. I much prefer this method to rolling the dice on being able to commit to stinking and hope we strike a can’t miss draft pick.

I say we stay the course and see what happens.

 

[ravenblade23x]

My thing with the let’s gut everything and do a rebuild is that it assumes that once you start the tailspin you can get out of it. Hey the Bengals got Burrow! Yeah after languishing for 30 years. Same with the Bills and Chiefs. There’s no guarantee that once you start down that road you can get out of it any time soon.

Also, having Carr makes the team more attractive to future coaches. Maybe DA fails but the next HC can at least come in and have something to build on.

i also don’t get the idea that if your team isn’t winning a Super Bowl then you tear it down. If that’s true then 20-25 teams should be in a constant state of a rebuild. Realistically who are the SB contenders? Maybe 5 teams, right? You don’t grow if you’re constantly starting over. And winning the division or getting to the playoffs isn’t anything to scoff at.

The Chiefs did not languish. They where 12-4 the year they drafted Mahomes. They moved up from the 27th spot to take him. They went 10-4 the next year with Smith still as there QB.

Yes there are teams out there that have struggled with a rebuild, But what a team like the Cowboys.

The last one a Super Bowl in 1995 28 years ago. Sure they have been good at times since then. Won the division 8 times since 1995. Made the playoffs 12 times in the same period. But have not sniffed a Super Bowl in that same time period. Being that I grew up in Shreveport/Bossier, I know a lot of Cowboys fans and most them have hated the last 20 years. Sure they make it to the playoffs but they never feel like they have a real shot at making it all way. You could argue that what Cowboys fan are going through is no different then what the Bengals did.

Maybe some Saints fan's remember all the losing so bad that don't want to go back to that. I get it, maybe just winning enough and making the playoffs every two years is OK for some fans, but I want to see us when another Super Bowl. Maybe we can with Carr, just not sold on it.