Why is it so hard to run the ball effectively (1 Viewer)

CitySaint

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I don't understand it.


We have Drew Brees a bonafide Elite QB, he has passed for 5000 yards multiple times, we pass 650-700 times a season. Our passing game is high powered and almost impossible to stop. Defenses should be shaking in their cleats, Co-ordinators should be having nightmares. Having an effective running game should be an inevitable consequence of that mere fact alone. Forget having five talented running backs. I asked myself recently why in the world would an opposing defense have 8 or even 9 in the box verses the Saints, ever... with Drew Brees under center? It makes no sense. Having Drew Brees we should be seeing 7 man fronts ALL the time and that 7 should many times come with a DB as the 7th defender.

When you come out having 2 tightends on the field WITH a lead blocker you are asking for an 8 or 9 in the box defense. Our run game strategy is basically GOAL LINE offense, 3 yards and a cloud of dust. And not only do we run this goalline style run game with 2 tightends AND a lead blocker, but often times the lead blocker or one of the tightends is an O- Lineman coming in as an "elligible receiver". We all know how "elligible" they really are. Olsen and C. Brown accounted for almost half of our run snaps. It's ridiculous to think we have a 6th lineman on over 50% of our run snaps and expect to get anything more than 3 yards per carry from any running back. Someone explain to me the benefit of having a 6th lineman making your run downs as obvious to the defense as possible as often as possible?
 

ELLIASJWILLIAMS

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I don't understand it.


We have Drew Brees a bonafide Elite QB, he has passed for 5000 yards multiple times, we pass 650-700 times a season. Our passing game is high powered and almost impossible to stop. Defenses should be shaking in their cleats, Co-ordinators should be having nightmares. Having an effective running game should be an inevitable consequence of that mere fact alone. Forget having five talented running backs. I asked myself recently why in the world would an opposing defense have 8 or even 9 in the box verses the Saints, ever... with Drew Brees under center? It makes no sense. Having Drew Brees we should be seeing 7 man fronts ALL the time and that 7 should many times come with a DB as the 7th defender.

When you come out having 2 tightends on the field WITH a lead blocker you are asking for an 8 or 9 in the box defense. Our run game strategy is basically GOAL LINE offense, 3 yards and a cloud of dust. And not only do we run this goalline style run game with 2 tightends AND a lead blocker, but often times the lead blocker or one of the tightends is an O- Lineman coming in as an "elligible receiver". We all know how "elligible" they really are. Olsen and C. Brown accounted for almost half of our run snaps. It's ridiculous to think we have a 6th lineman on over 50% of our run snaps and expect to get anything more than 3 yards per carry from any running back. Someone explain to me the benefit of having a 6th lineman making your run downs as obvious to the defense as possible as often as possible?
We run from our shotgun sets rarely...n of course those empty back sets offer no threat to run.

Rarely will we run a draw on 3rd n 8. Instead drew is taking a 5 step drop n looking for Graham.

When we do run the ball its obvious....its going to come after a 1st n 10 incomplete pass. On 2nd ingram is going to come in. Hand off..3rd n 8. Well..pass is next tee off on brees turnover on downs.

Ingram [:nono: - mod edit] n our tired defense is back on the field again.

Pats seemed to figure this out a year early......
 
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When we do run the ball its obvious....its going to come after a 1st n 10 incomplete pass. On 2nd ingram is going to come in. Hand off..3rd n 8.

Ingram sucks n our tired defense is back on the field again.

.
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CitySaint

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I don't think Ingram sucks, but you can't expect anything more than short yardage production from backs when you are constantly running short yardage run formations. I do think that PT and Ingrams lack of break away speed may be a problem. I know many will disagree and say both have break away speed though, but thats my opinion. I love both of them in space but they are probably maxed out at 20 - 25 yards, I don't think we will ever see them crank out 40 yard TD's regularly.
 

ELLIASJWILLIAMS

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I don't think Ingram sucks, but you can't expect anything more than short yardage production from backs when you are constantly running short yardage run formations. I do think that PT and Ingrams lack of break away speed may be a problem. I know many will disagree and say both have break away speed though, but thats my opinion. I love both of them in space but they are probably maxed out at 20 - 25 yards, I don't think we will ever see them crank out 40 yard TD's regularly.
No im saying...thts wht people scream...ingram sucks.

Not taking into account he got 9 in the box when he came n and we are telegraphing the run.

Im a fan of ingrams...just goes to show how people just say stuff without thinking it thru. Its not ingram....the run game as a whole sucked lst year.


Typical saints drive

1st down....empty back set. Quick pass to moore gets batted down. Drue licks his fingers then u see ingram run in.

2nd down- quick run up the middle. Ingram gets hit in the backfield. Stumbles forward for a gain of 8cm.

3rd down. Ingram trots off sproles trots on. Drew does about 19 chcks in the line n tells sproles to switch sides to pickup the blitz he identifies. Hike...bushrod gets pushed back by a bullrush. Sproles flares out n chips the guy. Everyone is covered so drew tries to hold tge ball...looking for someone to get the ball too. Bushrod has been defeated n as brees tries to release tge ball his shirt is grabbed n hes slung to the turf. Drew gets up straightens his face mask n walks off dizgusted.

4th down. Total TOP. 1:13 seconds


Rinse repeat.....ESPECIALLY if we are down by 10pts or more.

How do u expect a guy to get a feel for how defenses are playing him when he gets a carry every 11min and never back to back.

Stop the ingram hate.


Its a lack of a consistent WANT to run the ball and the constant swapping of RB's
 

CantonLegend

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Running the ball takes patience and a commitment

For a team that passes more than anyone else, we can't come out in obvious running formations all the time when we do decide to run it 1 out of the 15 times it happens in a game.

If you are going to run the ball you need to mix it up and trick the defense. Running inside sets up runs to the outside...and vice versa

Running to the strong side successfully opens up cutbacks, draws and screens

We don't run the ball well because we don't have the patience to set it up.

It has nothing to do with the talent of our line or running backs....it's a patience thing
 

Slim K

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It's not necessary. When we run it's either to spell the pass game, punch it in at the goal line or run down the clock. Not too mention we have 5 RBs. No one will ever get into a rhythm in that situation. I've seen PT and Ivory carve up defences when we use them consistently.

For every run play we run, we're taking the ball out of our best player's hands.
 

CantonLegend

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It's not necessary. When we run it's either to spell the pass game, punch it in at the goal line or run down the clock. Not too mention we have 5 RBs. No one will ever get into a rhythm in that situation. I've seen PT and Ivory carve up defences when we use them consistently.

For every run play we run, we're taking the ball out of our best player's hands.
Which is absolutely not true

Running is necessary. Think about every team sport in the world...does the best player score every point? Touch the ball every play? No

The best players need help from the rest of the team. Otherwise the defense can and will key in on them. Drew can't play against 11 guys that know he's going to have the ball every play

Even a superhuman like drew Brees can't play well against an opponent that has given up on defending the running game in favor of stopping the pass
 

Nolan

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We tip our hand with formations and personnel, essentially. Especially on 1st and 2nd down. If we as fans can pick up on our personnel/formations and know when we're going to run the ball, then the sky is the limit for opposing defensive coaches who have coaches tapes on us.

It's almost comical to see us try and run the ball. Typical Saints attempt at running the ball:

First down shotgun pass incomplete with Colston, Graham, Moore, Henderson and Sproles on the field. Then comes second down, and the personnel flips completely. We go from the above mentioned to David Thomas, Daniel Graham, Joe Morgan, Jed Collins and Mark Ingram in a heavy I formation. Geez, I wonder what they're going to do out of this formation with this group of personnel?

I think all of our running game problems are self inflicted. We have a pretty decent offensive line, and we have a talented stable of backs. We have the best passing game this league has ever seen. There should be literally no issues running the ball, at all. It's like we have this mindset that running the ball has to be hammered out in this traditional heavy formation with your run blocking tight ends and power backs.

Screw that, go 3-wide and run singleback runs with Mark Ingram for a change. Go 2-wide out of the I with Jimmy Graham as your tight end (bigger threat of a pass) and run it with Ingram/Ivory/Thomas. Run with stretches, run more draws (Pierre @ ATL anyone? Getting 10+ yards per draw play), run some misdirections and counters (Ivorys 55yd TD against ATL), run some tosses and sweeps with backs other than Sproles. It doesn't just have to be a simple dive up the middle on 1st/2nd in a heavy formation. All of our running game woes would turn into strengths if we just became less predictable.
 
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CitySaint

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I think it has little to do with patience and/or running the ball 30 or 40 times a game, and everything to do with execution. A great offense can run the ball a total of 15 times for 80 to 90 yards and show they can run the ball effectively and look unstoppable. Running the ball 40 times for 90 yards is not an effective running game.

So the question is why is there a failure in execution, but the problem is that there really is not. If you run short yardage formations your expectations in terms of execution from your backs will be a short yardage output. If we run Ingram 40 times a game he will barely gain 3 yards a carry in those formations everytime.
 

los226

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2012 was because of horrendous predictable play calling.

2011 we had no problem running the ball.

2010 our running game was decimated with injuries

2009 we had no problem running the ball.
 

CantonLegend

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I think it has little to do with patience and/or running the ball 30 or 40 times a game, and everything to do with execution. A great offense can run the ball a total of 15 times for 80 to 90 yards and show they can run the ball effectively and look unstoppable. Running the ball 40 times for 90 yards is not an effective running game.

So the question is why is there a failure in execution, but the problem is that there really is not. If you run short yardage formations your expectations in terms of execution from your backs will be a short yardage output. If we run Ingram 40 times a game he will barely gain 3 yards a carry in those formations everytime.
It's most definitely an issue with patience AND gameplanning

You can look around the league at star running backs...do they start off the game with 4 or 5 or 6 yards per carry? No

The first run of a game usually goes for 2 to 3 yards. It's not what skews runners averages

Running backs that average more than 4 ypc are guys that break off a 10 to 15 yard run a few times a game

The only way to do that successfully and consistently is to set up your runs. Run up the middle a few times and set up some runs to the outside

When teams like Cleveland a couple years ago come out in a defensive formation with only 1 down man....AUDIBLE TO A FREaKInG RUN
 

bornnraisedwhodat

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2012 was because of horrendous predictable play calling.

2011 we had no problem running the ball.

2010 our running game was decimated with injuries

2009 we had no problem running the ball.
This.

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