Why not trade up? (1 Viewer)

[dome patrol]

There are no guarantees in the draft. I'd be a little nervous about trading up, even for Dorsey despite the fact that I think he will be great for years to come. The draft really can be a crapshoot at best sometimes.

I agree with this.

If it comes down to us giving up a 3rd or 4th round pick to move up a spot or two, then yeah do it if you can get Ellis. Anything more then that is too much. The 2nd and 3rd rounds are stocked with LB talent this year. We need to keep those picks. And I certainely wouldn't trade our 1st next year. Never do that.

And this.

 

[seraph33]

No one seriously asked this question as of yet, but there might be a way to trade up, and draft one of the 2 premiere DTs in this year's draft.

Right now we're sitting at #10 and on the value chart our position is worth 1300 points.....if we want to trade up, we could offer our next year's #1 draft pick, which at this point would be the 16th pick, worth 1000 points. So both of them would be worth 2300 points, which could put us up to the 3rd spot in this year's draft, if Oakland would be willing to trade with us.

At #3 we would possibly have a shot to either Dorsey, or Ellis, and both of them are a can't miss talent. If we could sign Briggs in FA, and then draft a MLB in the 2nd rd, we could solve the majority of our defensive problems, and as we saw in the SB, our pass rush would be one of the best in the league!

Yes, I'm mindful of our CB needs, but we could get some help in the FA by signing some middle level talent, and we could possibly be a formidable team next season!

So.....why not trade up???

If we were merely one or two players away, then I'd be all for it, but the way it looks right now our entire defense needs retooling. Plus would you really want to give up 2 first round picks for one player? If we wanted to do that, why not just trade for a franchised player? The cost is simply too high. Plus even if we roll out the big bucks to sign some free agents, there's no guarantee they come here. Look at us last year, one game away from the superbowl yet we couldn't get any of the CB's we really wanted to sign with us. David was our 4th option. We are not as attractive a destination as we would like to think. I think we are sitting in a good position at 10. Yea we might miss out on Dorsey and Ellis, but after the Sullivan trade I realize no unproven rookie is worth to 1st's. If they are there at 8 or 7 and it doesn't cost us more than a 3rd. I'd be happy to see us trade up. I just don't think we should give up our 2nd (lots of value at CB and LB there) and definitely not another 1st for one player.

 

[Skynyrd]

I read on CBSSPORTS.COM that Dorseys stock level is starting to fall, we may not have to give up as much as you think to get him. I do agree with most of you , I think we need a CB in the 1st round and a LB in the 2nd. I beleive if we sit at #10 we wil get what we need.

 

[birdog]

If we were merely one or two players away, then I'd be all for it, but the way it looks right now our entire defense needs retooling. Plus would you really want to give up 2 first round picks for one player? If we wanted to do that, why not just trade for a franchised player? The cost is simply too high. Plus even if we roll out the big bucks to sign some free agents, there's no guarantee they come here. Look at us last year, one game away from the superbowl yet we couldn't get any of the CB's we really wanted to sign with us. David was our 4th option. We are not as attractive a destination as we would like to think. I think we are sitting in a good position at 10. Yea we might miss out on Dorsey and Ellis, but after the Sullivan trade I realize no unproven rookie is worth to 1st's. If they are there at 8 or 7 and it doesn't cost us more than a 3rd. I'd be happy to see us trade up. I just don't think we should give up our 2nd (lots of value at CB and LB there) and definitely not another 1st for one player.

These are all great arguments you're making, and kudos for that......but honestly I can shot holes in them.....like would I really give up 2 first rounders for 1 player? YES! I would! Its not like we know how to draft good.....our first rounder was red-shirted last year, which proves that we don't really have the ability to recognize talent.....I said that Dorsey or Ellis are 2 can't miss talent......but I'm not so sure we can get a playmaker at the 10th slot who is! Chances are, we will draft someone who might not pan out.....after all, we did it before! My reasoning was narrowly constructed about 2 players who are almost a sure thing......with a very small chance that they turn out like Sully.

My whole point is that you guys are looking for middle of the pack talent....well those are more often than not risky picks...some of them are great, some of them are busts.....but we need PLAYMAKERS on defense! That's why adding Briggs in FA would improve our playmaking abilities, and with a little luck we could land another one in the 2nd rd so our front 7 would be pretty darn good! Having a Dorsey or Ellis team up with Smith & Grant, backed up by Briggs and Fujita would improve our front 7 dramatically. And that's the point in my argument......we need players who will make tons of plays, not some wannabees who look good in shorts like Sedrick Hodge, but don't know how to play the game!

I'm afraid the general discussion is reverting to the same failed arguments which made the Saints D stagnate......mid talent level can only take the team so far.....sooner or later their deficiencies will surface, and then a letdown surely follows the initial better result......that's what happened to us last season!

Anyway, thanks for the input.....I thought it would be interesting to see if the fans still want first rate talent, or settle for mediocrity......mid level talent will bring more of the same, and that is the biggest danger if we want to revamp our D.....we need better talent level if we want to be successful in the postseason....

 

[bop]

If the top 2 DTs arent gonna be there at 10 I'd kinda rather trade down myself. Maybe see if the Cowboys are looking to get into the top 10 with their 2 1st rounders.

 

[seraph33]

These are all great arguments you're making, and kudos for that......but honestly I can shot holes in them.....like would I really give up 2 first rounders for 1 player? YES! I would! Its not like we know how to draft good.....our first rounder was red-shirted last year, which proves that we don't really have the ability to recognize talent.....I said that Dorsey or Ellis are 2 can't miss talent......but I'm not so sure we can get a playmaker at the 10th slot who is! Chances are, we will draft someone who might not pan out.....after all, we did it before! My reasoning was narrowly constructed about 2 players who are almost a sure thing......with a very small chance that they turn out like Sully.

My whole point is that you guys are looking for middle of the pack talent....well those are more often than not risky picks...some of them are great, some of them are busts.....but we need PLAYMAKERS on defense! That's why adding Briggs in FA would improve our playmaking abilities, and with a little luck we could land another one in the 2nd rd so our front 7 would be pretty darn good! Having a Dorsey or Ellis team up with Smith & Grant, backed up by Briggs and Fujita would improve our front 7 dramatically. And that's the point in my argument......we need players who will make tons of plays, not some wannabees who look good in shorts like Sedrick Hodge, but don't know how to play the game!

I'm afraid the general discussion is reverting to the same failed arguments which made the Saints D stagnate......mid talent level can only take the team so far.....sooner or later their deficiencies will surface, and then a letdown surely follows the initial better result......that's what happened to us last season!

Anyway, thanks for the input.....I thought it would be interesting to see if the fans still want first rate talent, or settle for mediocrity......mid level talent will bring more of the same, and that is the biggest danger if we want to revamp our D.....we need better talent level if we want to be successful in the postseason....

So you see no player at 10 that you think will be a very good starter, or is it that you don't see Dorsey or Ellis at 10 so anyone else would be a disappointment?

 

[cruize]

I like moving down a few spots.The Lions want a CB too. They may give up a decent pick to have their choice. This draft has some good middle round talent that could help the Saints. Plus, the Saints could still get McKelvin or Cromartie.

 

[jcollins9]

...if we want to trade up, we could offer our next year's #1 draft pick, which at this point would be the 16th pick, worth 1000 points....

How do you figure that our pick next year will be #16??

 

[Tapxe]

My whole point is that you guys are looking for middle of the pack talent....well those are more often than not risky picks...some of them are great, some of them are busts.....but we need PLAYMAKERS on defense!

Since that is plural, you don't trade away the picks. Remember we got Colston with the 4th to last pick in the draft. I like the Jimmy Johnson philosophy. The draft is such a crap shoot, you load up and take as many players as possible.

We are still paying for Ditka's mistake nearly 10 years ago of giving up everything for RW, since we squandered the 2 firsts on 1 bust.

 

[CCL36]

If it comes down to us giving up a 3rd or 4th round pick to move up a spot or two, then yeah do it if you can get Ellis. Anything more then that is too much. The 2nd and 3rd rounds are stocked with LB talent this year. We need to keep those picks. And I certainely wouldn't trade our 1st next year. Never do that.

I agree but I would also consider packaging Stinch with a 3rd or 4th preferably if we could move up say with the chiefs at 5.

 

[Gideon]

It's unlikely both are gone in the top 5, and so we might not need to give up our 1st next year to trade up, maybe even get away with our second to jump into Baltimore or NE's spot...

thoughts?

Also, is next years draft looking particularly good right now? This years draft, while lacking elite players at the top, is pretty deep in the mid first to mid second round type players...what does next years draft look like?

 

[RockyMtnSaint]

How do you figure that our pick next year will be #16??

32/2 = 16 Everybody's pick in 2009 is #16.

 

[gregh]

You seriously think Dorsey or Ellis is the 2nd coming of J Sully??

no one knows anything for sure. there were too many players out of college that turned to be busts. there is no garuntee

 

[Saint Droopy]

Stay at 10... hell if Dorsey and Ellis are gone at 10 I'd consider trading down if the right deal comes along. As much as I'd love to have either one of those guys... I'd hate to give away picks... see the Pittman trade... 2 picks down the crapper...

 

[Richard]

These are all great arguments you're making, and kudos for that......but honestly I can shot holes in them.....like would I really give up 2 first rounders for 1 player? YES! I would! Its not like we know how to draft good.....our first rounder was red-shirted last year, which proves that we don't really have the ability to recognize talent.....I said that Dorsey or Ellis are 2 can't miss talent......but I'm not so sure we can get a playmaker at the 10th slot who is! Chances are, we will draft someone who might not pan out.....after all, we did it before! My reasoning was narrowly constructed about 2 players who are almost a sure thing......with a very small chance that they turn out like Sully.

My whole point is that you guys are looking for middle of the pack talent....well those are more often than not risky picks...some of them are great, some of them are busts.....but we need PLAYMAKERS on defense! That's why adding Briggs in FA would improve our playmaking abilities, and with a little luck we could land another one in the 2nd rd so our front 7 would be pretty darn good! Having a Dorsey or Ellis team up with Smith & Grant, backed up by Briggs and Fujita would improve our front 7 dramatically. And that's the point in my argument......we need players who will make tons of plays, not some wannabees who look good in shorts like Sedrick Hodge, but don't know how to play the game!

I'm afraid the general discussion is reverting to the same failed arguments which made the Saints D stagnate......mid talent level can only take the team so far.....sooner or later their deficiencies will surface, and then a letdown surely follows the initial better result......that's what happened to us last season!

Anyway, thanks for the input.....I thought it would be interesting to see if the fans still want first rate talent, or settle for mediocrity......mid level talent will bring more of the same, and that is the biggest danger if we want to revamp our D.....we need better talent level if we want to be successful in the postseason....

I don't think anyone who is disagreeing with you is "settling for mediocrity." They simply hold a different point of view. And I'm not bashing you, but you seem to be offering conflicting arguments. You state that you aren't sure playmakers can be found at #10. You certainly know that playmakers can be found anywhere in the draft, since you advocate signing Briggs, a third-round draft choice, to team with Fujita, a fifth-round choice IIRC. Believing the Saintsshould utilize all of the picks instead of spending them to move up in the first round does not equate to "looking for middle of the pack talent." The #10 pick is no more or less risky than #8 or #12. Patrick Willis was Defensive Rookie of the Year and was the #11 pick. I think you'd have to agree he was a playmaker and an impact player.

The scouting department, GM and coaching staff will do their jobs and do their due diligence to determine the best course for this team. If that means they get Dorsey or Ellis, fine, but if not, I'm fine with that too. I'm not convinced one of them wont be there at #10 and my preference would be to get one of them, but the Saints may think otherwise.