Why take so many shots at Peat? (1 Viewer)

Give me the QB pressure given up on that game.
For the Week 10 game against the Falcons?

I don't have it offhand but looking at the boxscore on Pro Football Reference, Falcons defenders had a combined 11 QB hits on Brees. I'm not sure if those hits include the sacks or not but if they don't, that'd have him pressured at least 17 times on 51 dropbacks (at least 1/3rd of his dropbacks) not including pressures that affected the play but defenders couldn't get a hit on him.
I also had did this analysis a few days after the game about the 6 sacks if it's of any interest?
 
It's expectations for performance given over his career.

So you can say he was only "obviously" beaten 5/54 snaps in the playoff game but it's more about how, and why he was beaten those 5 times. When he loses a snap, he loses badly and it's usually poor hand usage, lack of awareness passing in the stunt game, or just simply losing the physicality battle and getting over powered. In the Linval Joseph, Everson Griffin, and Adrian Clayborn (Falcons game) examples he just gets straight bullied, loses with his hands and feet and gets sent to the ground. For an Interior Linemen you want those guys to be dishing out punishment routinely, Peat just seems prone to being on the receiving end of punishment.

It's not about 5 select snaps from a playoff game, it's about 5 snaps per game over the course of a career, when generally speaking the other Linemen he has played with have been more consistent in not getting beat over the course of a season. (Arm, McCoy/Unger, Warford, Ramczyk) He also is frequently beat up, and his availability is constantly in question. Goes back to the toughness trait..

Also you have to take into account this is the #13th overall pick, from the 1st round.. if you told me 7th rounder Will Clapp gets routinely beaten 5 pass rush snaps for the game.. I'd say okay it's what you expect.. or Undrafted journeyman Nick Easton is getting beat 5 snaps per game.. okay he's supposed to be a back-up.. but for a First round Guard, who somehow got voted into a Pro-Bowl (shows how much of a joke the Pro Bowl is) you would expect Quenton Nelson level of play.

For a team whose makeup dictates that immediate interior pressure just kills their Offensive output, Peat just hasn't shown enough to be re-signed.
tldr: Peat under performs compared to his starting peers on the OL, and relative to his Draft status, expectation, his position can be upgraded for less salary than he will currently demand on the open market.
 
It's expectations for performance given over his career.

So you can say he was only "obviously" beaten 5/54 snaps in the playoff game but it's more about how, and why he was beaten those 5 times. When he loses a snap, he loses badly and it's usually poor hand usage, lack of awareness passing in the stunt game, or just simply losing the physicality battle and getting over powered. In the Linval Joseph, Everson Griffin, and Adrian Clayborn (Falcons game) examples he just gets straight bullied, loses with his hands and feet and gets sent to the ground. For an Interior Linemen you want those guys to be dishing out punishment routinely, Peat just seems prone to being on the receiving end of punishment.

It's not about 5 select snaps from a playoff game, it's about 5 snaps per game over the course of a career, when generally speaking the other Linemen he has played with have been more consistent in not getting beat over the course of a season. (Arm, McCoy/Unger, Warford, Ramczyk) He also is frequently beat up, and his availability is constantly in question. Goes back to the toughness trait..

Also you have to take into account this is the #13th overall pick, from the 1st round.. if you told me 7th rounder Will Clapp gets routinely beaten 5 pass rush snaps for the game.. I'd say okay it's what you expect.. or Undrafted journeyman Nick Easton is getting beat 5 snaps per game.. okay he's supposed to be a back-up.. but for a First round Guard, who somehow got voted into a Pro-Bowl (shows how much of a joke the Pro Bowl is) you would expect Quenton Nelson level of play.

For a team whose makeup dictates that immediate interior pressure just kills their Offensive output, Peat just hasn't shown enough to be re-signed.
tldr: Peat under performs compared to his starting peers on the OL, and relative to his Draft status, expectation, his position can be upgraded for less salary than he will currently demand on the open market.
His draft position has zero bearing on this. He didn’t pick himself.
 
His draft position has zero bearing on this. He didn’t pick himself.
What do you mean zero bearing, of course it matters. When you invest significant capital in something you expect to see a return on investment.

To date Saints have received more consistent on field play out their:

LT - 75th overall pick
C - 48th overall pick
RG - 65th overall pick
RT - 32nd overall pick

So it's obvious we can see the Saints as an organization value spending high draft capital on their Offensive Line, when they use a high first rounder, 13th overall on an OL who they play on the interior, a crucial position for their passing scheme I would assume they would expect consistent, high quality play, and availability.

I think you are mistaking people criticizing Peat's on field performance, vs. attacking him as a person. For the record I wish nothing but the best for him as a person and hope he does well in life, I just don't think his play on the field warrants a big time contract for this team going forward.
 
Excellent run blocker, very weak at pass protections - especially in obvious situations e.g. shotgun etc.

Should not be retained, we need to find another McCoy type LG in the draft
 
It's expectations for performance given over his career.

So you can say he was only "obviously" beaten 5/54 snaps in the playoff game but it's more about how, and why he was beaten those 5 times. When he loses a snap, he loses badly and it's usually poor hand usage, lack of awareness passing in the stunt game, or just simply losing the physicality battle and getting over powered. In the Linval Joseph, Everson Griffin, and Adrian Clayborn (Falcons game) examples he just gets straight bullied, loses with his hands and feet and gets sent to the ground. For an Interior Linemen you want those guys to be dishing out punishment routinely, Peat just seems prone to being on the receiving end of punishment.

It's not about 5 select snaps from a playoff game, it's about 5 snaps per game over the course of a career, when generally speaking the other Linemen he has played with have been more consistent in not getting beat over the course of a season. (Arm, McCoy/Unger, Warford, Ramczyk) He also is frequently beat up, and his availability is constantly in question. Goes back to the toughness trait..

Also you have to take into account this is the #13th overall pick, from the 1st round.. if you told me 7th rounder Will Clapp gets routinely beaten 5 pass rush snaps for the game.. I'd say okay it's what you expect.. or Undrafted journeyman Nick Easton is getting beat 5 snaps per game.. okay he's supposed to be a back-up.. but for a First round Guard, who somehow got voted into a Pro-Bowl (shows how much of a joke the Pro Bowl is) you would expect Quenton Nelson level of play.

For a team whose makeup dictates that immediate interior pressure just kills their Offensive output, Peat just hasn't shown enough to be re-signed.
tldr: Peat under performs compared to his starting peers on the OL, and relative to his Draft status, expectation, his position can be upgraded for less salary than he will currently demand on the open market.
I ran through the tape of the Vikings playoff game because the guy I quoted specifically referenced the Vikings game; not for his career or any other game. The film I watched told an entirely different story than the narrative he tried to pass off as fact. Simple as that.
 
I ran through the tape of the Vikings playoff game because the guy I quoted specifically referenced the Vikings game; not for his career or any other game. The film I watched told an entirely different story than the narrative he tried to pass off as fact. Simple as that.

Always good to get back to the film, and I appreciate you reviewing it and giving your views. That's when the real discussion begins.

While you definitely highlight minuses for Peat, I think you're being a bit generous. I've been there. I've watched film on him with a positive mind set, looking for the good and making adjustments in my grading to give him the benefit of the doubt. However, looked at dispassionately, I think you'll find double the amount of minuses than what you listed. Other than the OZ right for the TD, which is a minus, but not necessarily egregious, there were several minuses you showed where he was very poor, rather than didn't quite do enough to get a plus. But there were at least as many, if not more, where Peat didn't do enough for me to grade out positively. These didn't lead to sacks or pressures, or Kamara being hit in the backfield, but still aren't plus plays for me.

So on my scorecard, without getting too scientific about it, Peat graded out at around 75-80%, with several plays which were really bad. That's not pro-bowl calibre play (not that performance has much to do with pro bowl nods these days), and it isn't 'let's pay him £10m per year' play.

I agree with you that where he was drafted makes no difference, that's all in the past and neither here nor there - sunk cost as you might say and not relevant to decision making. But he's not worth a big money extension because his play doesn't warrant it, not on our Oline anyway. Modest contract to compete at LG, yes. More than that, no.

I also agree Peat gets more stick than he probably deserves. Much of that goes back to draft position, and his first year which wasn't stellar, and his troubles finding a position. And I understand fighting back against some of that, which I have done for years. But now is the time to make a decision on him, and to me, 2 pro bowls notwithstanding, he can be improved upon and isn't worth over-paying for. He's not trash, as some here would say, but he makes too many poor plays and is usually among the weakest OL performers on our line in any given week.
 
Always good to get back to the film, and I appreciate you reviewing it and giving your views. That's when the real discussion begins.

While you definitely highlight minuses for Peat, I think you're being a bit generous. I've been there. I've watched film on him with a positive mind set, looking for the good and making adjustments in my grading to give him the benefit of the doubt. However, looked at dispassionately, I think you'll find double the amount of minuses than what you listed. Other than the OZ right for the TD, which is a minus, but not necessarily egregious, there were several minuses you showed where he was very poor, rather than didn't quite do enough to get a plus. But there were at least as many, if not more, where Peat didn't do enough for me to grade out positively. These didn't lead to sacks or pressures, or Kamara being hit in the backfield, but still aren't plus plays for me.

So on my scorecard, without getting too scientific about it, Peat graded out at around 75-80%, with several plays which were really bad. That's not pro-bowl calibre play (not that performance has much to do with pro bowl nods these days), and it isn't 'let's pay him £10m per year' play.

I agree with you that where he was drafted makes no difference, that's all in the past and neither here nor there - sunk cost as you might say and not relevant to decision making. But he's not worth a big money extension because his play doesn't warrant it, not on our Oline anyway. Modest contract to compete at LG, yes. More than that, no.

I also agree Peat gets more stick than he probably deserves. Much of that goes back to draft position, and his first year which wasn't stellar, and his troubles finding a position. And I understand fighting back against some of that, which I have done for years. But now is the time to make a decision on him, and to me, 2 pro bowls notwithstanding, he can be improved upon and isn't worth over-paying for. He's not trash, as some here would say, but he makes too many poor plays and is usually among the weakest OL performers on our line in any given week.
This seems pretty fair.

The other thing is, when is he not fighting an injury or just coming off of one?

Without trying to collect data, he seems significantly hampered or slowed by an injury each and every season for substantial stretches of games. And playing through the pain so much might be an additional factor impacting performance/focus etc.

I don't know how to fix that, just seems the pattern.

On the VIkings game though we have enough data points that coming off that long layoff and injury and likely rusty you might have though twice about disrupting what was working and forcing Peat back into the lineup.
 
What do you mean zero bearing, of course it matters. When you invest significant capital in something you expect to see a return on investment.

To date Saints have received more consistent on field play out their:

LT - 75th overall pick
C - 48th overall pick
RG - 65th overall pick
RT - 32nd overall pick

So it's obvious we can see the Saints as an organization value spending high draft capital on their Offensive Line, when they use a high first rounder, 13th overall on an OL who they play on the interior, a crucial position for their passing scheme I would assume they would expect consistent, high quality play, and availability.

I think you are mistaking people criticizing Peat's on field performance, vs. attacking him as a person. For the record I wish nothing but the best for him as a person and hope he does well in life, I just don't think his play on the field warrants a big time contract for this team going forward.


Everyone forgets that he played Left Tackle in college and we drafted him with the expectation of him playing right tackle. He's not an interior mauler body type. He's simply too large with too much weight up high. We tried to make the best of a bad situation and it's time to cut bait. Left guard is the easiest position to play and if he can't do it then it's time to move on. I'm not thrilled with Warford's play lately either. I think McCoy may be covering up for a problem there as well.
 
No, the same Easton who came in and looked much better than Peat laying on his back, which has been his go to move for the last two season when he's not injured. Easton also solidified the OL after Peat's injury and helped Brees have the best month of the season in December. Peat comes back and immediately looks terrible again.

I'm pretty kind to Saints players, perhaps too kind at times. Peat is the one guy I hope is not on this team next year. I wish we'd have traded him last offseason when he had some semblance of value. I'm all for drafting another guard this year.

Exactly, when Easton came in the game and immediately Brees had time to throw and hit Taysom with a 20 yard TD....One play, I get it but there is no reasonable way you can argue that Peat hasn't regressed mightily this year. He is simply not the same player he was before the injuries started to pile up....

I've got nothing against him and wish him well but I don't want him on our team any longer....
 
Peat kind of reminds me of an average CB or safety, in that, you don’t generally notice the good plays, but the bad plays are so in your face. I’ve never seen a decent o lineman literally on his butt for multiple plays in multiple games, and yet, some film watchers I respect say he’s “ok.”

Honestly don’t know that I’ve seen an o lineman in history on his butt so frequently.
 
Peat kind of reminds me of an average CB or safety, in that, you don’t generally notice the good plays, but the bad plays are so in your face. I’ve never seen a decent o lineman literally on his butt for multiple plays in multiple games, and yet, some film watchers I respect say he’s “ok.”

Honestly don’t know that I’ve seen an o lineman in history on his butt so frequently.

It's because he's big and powerful but he's too tall and he carries most of his weight up top. He's a right tackle body type. He's good once he's forward and leaning into a drive block but the exact opposite happens when the other player gets into his pads. The ideal guard is 6'4 330 lbs with 50% of that weight in their arse end or below. Peat is like 6'7 and like 65% of that is above his hips.
 
No, it's obvious that YOU didn't watch the film of the playoff game. I just did and Peat played his *** off. There are only 5 plays the entire game that I marked down as a loss for Peat, 4 in pass blocking and 1 in run blocking (which ended up as a TD anyway).
—————
1st quarter, 2:49 remaining, 3rd & 6 at NO 16 - Everson Griffen from the 3-technique hits Peat with the spin move and hurries Brees into throwing incomplete to Kamara, it's the first and only time Griffen beats Peat on the spin

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2nd quarter, 13:56 remaining, 3rd & 9 at NO 36 - Griffen lines up as the 4-tech and uses his power to gain positioning and get around Peat's outside shoulder and forces Brees to slide right and take his checkdown to Josh Hill for 2 yards

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2nd quarter, 9:44 remaining, 1st & Goal at MIN 4 - Linval Joseph is lined up as the 1-tech and is able to shoot the A-gap on the backside pursuit, but is unable to reach Kamara who scores the TD; this play I think Peat is expecting help from McCoy, who instead doubleteams Shamar Stephen with Warford, but the chaos resulting in the Vikings' defensive shift right before the snap led to confusion along our offensive line

View attachment DA65A442-76C8-4523-84EB-88536D1F4404.MOV















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3rd quarter, 14:20 remaining, 2nd & 7 at NO 26 - Joseph lined up as the 2-tech uses excellent hand placement to walk Peat back and with the right side pressure, forces Brees to escape off the left side for 5 yards

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3rd quarter, 11:33 remaining, 3rd & 1 at NO 44 - Peat gets downfield, but is unable to catch Eric Kendricks, who diagnoses the play right at the snap and runs to the edge to make the play

View attachment 13DD1ABE-BB4B-4323-8619-E25916747FEE.MOV















I listed this as a pass block since it technically was a pass, but could be considered a run block.

So of his 54 snaps, Peat arguably only lost 5 of them against some VERY good players (Griffen, Joseph, and Kendricks). That’s a far cry from “getting beat like a drum” when he won far more reps than he lost against both Griffen and Joseph.

If you have any specific plays you’d like to recall from the playoff game that you feel Peat got beat on, I’ll be happy to cap it and post it.


No offensive lineman can be expected to run down a linebacker that already has a bead on the play, much less Peat trying to run down Eric Kendricks, who was voted 1st team All-Pro this year. If it would been a DL then maybe but Kendricks’ speed and smarts had him 2 steps ahead of Peat before the ball was even snapped so I can’t really fault him for that.
To me he releases his blocks too soon and gets beat by spin and quick moves , he appears to be slow on his feet and I think his position should be up graded . Not picking on him he just gives up 2 many big plays up the middle and for the record I also think ARMSTEAD is fragile and gets injured often . We may need to look into a veteran backup or draft and develop his position so when he goes down we don’t have to be crossing our fingers and toes when he does .
 
Just notice the defense taking turns lining up across from him. It’s obvious, they are fighting who get to rush against him. He has been a flop and thus has gone on far too long. Over paid to boot. Falls down way too much, flat out whiffs, missed assignments. If he struggles with quickness inside the phone booth at guard, I sure wouldn’t put him outside to expose him further. Blows my mind why they picked up his 5th year option for last year.
 

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