WikiLeaks drop has started (2 Viewers)

[ArcSoul]

What are "Cables"?

Im not sure but i think it means cablegrams with is sending information such as messages over cable. I guess like an email. I looked it up in the dictionary thats about all i got out of it.

 

[BIG E]

I don't understand why we don't let Dick Chaney go hunting with this guy.

 

[Flipx99]

This stretch can be applied to any logic to sell complete submission.

What do you think government is if we are abdicating they hide everything from the very people they 'serve'?

The 'media' isn't going to do their job of informing the masses (outside of serving as government mouth pieces), so it would give rise to a WikiLeaks. So it appears that we're either going to believe everything governments tell us (how has that worked for the past century?) or allow information to be vetted/weighed by thinking adults?

Terrur terrur terrur. Everyone's a terrurist. It is a simple and lazy justification for anything

So, do you think our government should not have the ability to have any privileged documents?

 

[brophy]

So, do you think our government should not have the ability to have any privileged documents?

Absolutely. That isn't the discussion we're having, though.

The government has been labeling EVERYTHING as 'classified' for decades to avoid any accountability or recourse through FOI. There would be no way to keep government from doing all sorts of dastardly acts.

I'm not really seeing anything in this first installment that jeapordizes any American citizens, though. American power elites/politicians? Yes - should be plenty there to force a hard integrity check.

 

[Dragon]

Absolutely. That isn't the discussion we're having, though.

The government has been labeling EVERYTHING as 'classified' for decades to avoid any accountability or recourse through FOI. There would be no way to keep government from doing all sorts of dastardly acts.

I'm not really seeing anything in this first installment that jeapordizes any American citizens, though. American power elites/politicians? Yes - should be plenty there to force a hard integrity check.

You don't think revelations like these couldn't endanger the Yemeni president Ali Abdullah Saleh ??? But of cause he is no American citizen. How long do you think people are willing to make deals like these if they are not kept privileged - And if deals are not made - American citizens and those of other nations could be in danger !

 

[brophy]

Rather than go back-and-forth with "with us or against us" rhetoric, let's examine specifics...

10 most important WikiLeaks Revelations
Diplomats as spies: As part of an intelligence gathering effort, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton in 2009 ordered diplomats overseas and at the U.N. to collect personal information on foreign officials including credit card and frequent flier numbers and biometric information.. While this may not be shocking to foreign policy wonks, it is certainly embarrassing for the United States and calls into question how much -- and how frequently -- the role of diplomat and spy has been blurred.
http://cablegate.wikileaks.org/cable/2009/07/09STATE80163.html

Secret war in Yemen: The Obama administration has secretly launched missile attacks on suspected terrorists in Yemen, with the Yemeni government taking responsibility and consistently lying about it. While the attacks have drawn relatively little public attention, dozens of civilians along with some suspected terrorists have reportedly been killed.
http://cablegate.wikileaks.org/cable/2010/01/10SANAA4.html
Iran and North Korea: American intelligence believes Iran has received 19 missiles from North Korea with a range up to 2,000 miles, making them the longest-range missiles in the Iranian arsenal. The Times says it did not publish the cable at the request of the Obama administration. It has not been posted by WikiLeaks.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/29/world/middleeast/29missiles.html
Gates skeptical on Iran attack: Secretary of Defense Bob Gates, in a meeting with his French counterpart in February of this year, said that "he believed a conventional strike by any nation would only delay Iranian plans by one to three years, while unifying the Iranian people to be forever embittered against the attacker."
http://cablegate.wikileaks.org/cable/2010/02/10PARIS170.html
Saudis want U.S. to bomb Iran: Several Arab leaders have privately urged the U.S. to launch an attack on Iran to stall or stop its nuclear program. Most memorably, King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia is reported to have "told you [the U.S.] to cut off the head of the snake," according to a Saudi diplomat .
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/150519
Israel bluffing on Iran threats? The government of Israel, which has been publicly vocal about the possibility of launching airstrikes against Iran's nuclear program, was not considering such an attack, Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman told his Russian counterpart on a trip to Moscow in June 2009.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/150519
Fears of uranium in Pakistan: The U.S. has since 2007 tried to get enriched uranium at a Pakistani nuclear reactor out of that country, fearing that the uranium could fall into unfriendly hands and be used to make a bomb. The effort has been unsuccessful.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/29/world/29cables.html?pagewanted=all
Fatah had warning of Gaza invasion? Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak told an American congressional delegation that Israel had asked Egypt and Fatah, the Palestian movement that governs the West Bank, "if they were willing to assume control of Gaza once Israel defeated Hamas" prior to Israeli's devastating attack on Gaza in late 2008.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/209599
Afghan corruption: The U.S. government deals regularly with a brother of President Hamid Karzai whom it believes to be corrupt and a drug trafficker. That's the conclusion of a cable from October 2009 about Ahmed Wali Karzai, who has also been reported to be on the CIA payroll. This does not come as a shock, but it amounts to official recognition that a U.S. partner in Afghanistan is implicated in criminal enterprises.
http://cablegate.wikileaks.org/cable/2009/10/09KABUL3068.html
Undiplomatic name-calling: This is probably less important than the revelations above, but it is already making waves in the international press: Several of the cables have U.S. diplomats describing foreign leaders in unfriendly terms -- from comparing Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to Hitler to calling Russia's Vladimir Putin "alpha-dog" and French President Nicolas Sarkozy "the emperor with no clothes."
http://www.cbc.ca/politics/story/2010/11/28/wikileaks-release.html

 

[Jeff Miller]

Does WikiLeaks post classified information from countries like Iran, North Korea, Syria, Russia and China? If not...why not?

 

[ArcSoul]

Releasing this information seems pointlessly reckless to me. I think the potential damage that could be done far outways the need to know.

I agree with Hercule on the note that this could really be damaging to foreign relationships for alot of information that really does not need to be known by the general public. Its really of no use.

 

[Flipx99]

Absolutely. That isn't the discussion we're having, though.

The government has been labeling EVERYTHING as 'classified' for decades to avoid any accountability or recourse through FOI. There would be no way to keep government from doing all sorts of dastardly acts.

I'm not really seeing anything in this first installment that jeapordizes any American citizens, though. American power elites/politicians? Yes - should be plenty there to force a hard integrity check.

Well, just picking one of your examples nearly at random, why do you think that this should not be classified:

Gates skeptical on Iran attack: Secretary of Defense Bob Gates, in a meeting with his French counterpart in February of this year, said that "he believed a conventional strike by any nation would only delay Iranian plans by one to three years, while unifying the Iranian people to be forever embittered against the attacker."


Do you not see a need for American leaders to be able to discuss defense strategy with our allies without disclosing our mental impressions to our adversaries?

 

[brophy]

You don't think revelations like these couldn't endanger the Yemeni president Ali Abdullah Saleh ???

Why would it endanger him?

 

[LSSpam]

10 most important WikiLeaks Revelations
Diplomats as spies:

Secret war in Yemen:

Iran and North Korea:

Gates skeptical on Iran attack:

Saudis want U.S. to bomb Iran:

Israel bluffing on Iran threats?

Fears of uranium in Pakistan

Fatah had warning of Gaza invasion?

Afghan corruption:

Undiplomatic name-calling:

Is any of this anywhere close to surprising? Do you really consider any of this remotely "revelatory"? Do you think anything will change given that virtually all involved actors undoubtedly were already aware of this and implications along all of those lines already existed in the mainstream press?

Has wikileaks really "changed" much of anything?

 

[LSSpam]

I mean this is all just pointless. I'm pretty ****** at Assange, not because he released these, but because he made such a huge damn deal about this, like the net result was going to be pariah status for the United States or something, and there's just nothing here of anything more then tabloid interest.

I mean embarrassing, you sure as hell bet it is to the US and some involved. But there is no vast conspiracy or crimes or secrets exposed here. There's really just nothing "game-changing".

All this tells me is that foreign relations are infinitely more explicable then I originally thought, given that everything, everything of significance I've seen so far was largely anticipated by the mainstream media and other governments already. Hell, about 90% of the important stuff the US itself had already leaked to the media in some form.

 

[Dragon]

Why would it endanger him?

How do you think the general population in an ultra muslim country is going to react to the fact that their own government allow the "enemy" to bomb camps in Yemen ? They may accept that their own government forces did it but foreigners ???

One thing is that the terrorist may know it or that people suspect it - another is having it blasted on the front page of every newspaper worldwide.

Muslim extremist killed Sadat for less.

 

[gmaw]

It also should be noted that the Wikileaks founder is wanted for Rape.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/nov/18/wikileaks-founder-faces-swedish-detention-rape

 

[Casterfield]

It also should be noted that the Wikileaks founder is wanted for Rape.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/nov/18/wikileaks-founder-faces-swedish-detention-rape

Why? I don't see how that's relevant at all, especially considering that it may be a bogus charge.