Will Smith- lot of video (1 Viewer)

bclemms

More than 15K posts served!
Joined
Jul 16, 2005
Messages
33,097
Reaction score
42,648
Age
12
Location
Jackson, ms
Online
This was posted by CitySaint showing every snap by Corey White last season. White mostly came in on passing situations. I like the videos because there are no commercials, no huddle and wait, no Saints offense. Just one defensive snap after the next in mostly passing situations.

I dare anyone to watch these videos, focus on Will Smith and defend his play.

What I found very disturbing was the play of Will Smith. He is our right side defensive end, the guy that is supposed to be the best pass rusher. The position offensive lines worry about and scheme against. This is about 40 minutes worth of videos that haven't been cherry picked to show poor performance or anything like that. What is most disturbing out of the couple hundred snaps is Will Smith is double teamed or chipped only about a few times. The few times Martez Wilson shows up teams almost always make sure to get a second body on him and I'm not saying Wilson should have been a full time end for us. Remember when we used to scream and throw crap at the TV because Will Smith was being held constantly? In all three videos combined he is held one time against the Chargers 4th string OT. In the entire 3 videos he doesn't get a single sack, gets what I'd consider 1 QB hurry (same play he was held), not a single hit on the QB, doesn't make an impact play at any point and most of the time can be seen not really doing anything.

In my mind, if a DE is getting double teamed or even chipped he is doing his job. If he is getting pressure on a QB or making plays in the backfield in the running game then he is doing his job. DE's can have an impact without ever showing up on the stat sheet by hitting the QB, forcing ends and backs to help block or even getting in a QBs head. At no point did Will Smith do any of these things.

I'm not a Will Smith hater. There were times in his career that he was one of the best complete ends in football and for a long stretch was probably our best defensive player.

Before anyone says he can move inside and have an impact, he lined up as a pass rushing DT in quite a few snaps, particularly against San Diego and had zero impact on any play.



<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/WDrg4WMZCBA" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>

<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/KIUvNLeaq1s" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>

<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/m1BmpHzOYQI" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>
 

ELLIASJWILLIAMS

More than 15K posts served!
VIP Contributor
Joined
Nov 28, 2007
Messages
17,073
Reaction score
30,412
Offline
My opinion.

Corey White got abused a lot in zone coverage but looks to have what it takes to play man coverage. He doesn't look as bad as we've made him seem.


As far as Will Smith..its like man you are arguing the same thing most of us know but then taking it a step further.

Its been painfully obvious that last 2-3 years that Will Smith was no longer an elite edge rusher as a RDE. The two most important positions in the 4-3 are RDE and 3TEch because thats where ur pressure is expected to come from. Blindside & up the middle.

With that being said...Will Smith is still a good veteran player. The move to the 3-4 will remove him from being our edge player and put Galette or Tez on the field on the edge. Yes Will Smith's contract is not a good indicator of his play but thats the purpose for them restructuring. If we can get him@ a reasonable price then im all for keeping him. Especially since he isn't being asked to be the edge rusher in a 4-3 anymore.

Hes played in a scheme like this under 3G b4 and was productive...not elite but productive. There are more positives to keeping him @ a reasonable price then outright releasing him.

He still could be released by training camp for all we know if other guys end up showing better but above all he offers a veteran presence and leadership and SOLID play. Doeesn't hurt to keep him for 1 more year as a ROTATIONAL player.
 

CantonLegend

Best Looking
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
9,269
Reaction score
6,966
Offline
It took until the 3rd play in the first video for me to know you're full of it so I stopped watching

He cut acrossed the guards face and got his hands up in front of the QB.Had the route not been open immediately, will smith was in Freeman's face
 
OP
bclemms

bclemms

More than 15K posts served!
Joined
Jul 16, 2005
Messages
33,097
Reaction score
42,648
Age
12
Location
Jackson, ms
Online
My opinion.

Corey White got abused a lot in zone coverage but looks to have what it takes to play man coverage. He doesn't look as bad as we've made him seem.


As far as Will Smith..its like man you are arguing the same thing most of us know but then taking it a step further.

Its been painfully obvious that last 2-3 years that Will Smith was no longer an elite edge rusher as a RDE. The two most important positions in the 4-3 are RDE and 3TEch because thats where ur pressure is expected to come from. Blindside & up the middle.

With that being said...Will Smith is still a good veteran player. The move to the 3-4 will remove him from being our edge player and put Galette or Tez on the field on the edge. Yes Will Smith's contract is not a good indicator of his play but thats the purpose for them restructuring. If we can get him@ a reasonable price then im all for keeping him. Especially since he isn't being asked to be the edge rusher in a 3-4 anymore.

Hes played in a scheme like this under 3G b4 and was productive...not elite but productive. There are more positives to keeping him @ a reasonable price then outright releasing him.

He still could be released by training camp for all we know if other guys end up showing better but above all he offers a veteran presence and leadership and SOLID play. Doeesn't hurt to keep him for 1 more year.
I don't care about Will Smith's contract, he could have been paying the Saints to play last season and it still wouldn't make him worth keeping. Did you even watch the video and focus on Smith? He has never been productive or even close to it when he was moved inside at any point in his career. Listen to what you are saying, move a player that is washed up out of position and it will make him a better player?

Seriously, watch the videos and focus on Smith and it will be painfully obvious. Don't say you did because the videos are 40 minutes and you posted after 15 minutes.
 
OP
bclemms

bclemms

More than 15K posts served!
Joined
Jul 16, 2005
Messages
33,097
Reaction score
42,648
Age
12
Location
Jackson, ms
Online
It took until the 3rd play in the first video for me to know you're full of it so I stopped watching

He cut acrossed the guards face and got his hands up in front of the QB.Had the route not been open immediately, will smith was in Freeman's face
No wonder you like all the Saints players so much. A defender puts his hands up on one play and you're in love.
 

CantonLegend

Best Looking
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
9,269
Reaction score
6,966
Offline
The very next play he gets his hands up to create separation and read the play. He doesn't rush the QB immediately because he isn't supposed to on that play...but you and others will look at it and say he's slow off the ball

It's not your fault...it's something that most people just aren't familiar with. You have to know what you're watching
 

ELLIASJWILLIAMS

More than 15K posts served!
VIP Contributor
Joined
Nov 28, 2007
Messages
17,073
Reaction score
30,412
Offline
I don't care about Will Smith's contract, he could have been paying the Saints to play last season and it still wouldn't make him worth keeping. Did you even watch the video and focus on Smith? He has never been productive or even close to it when he was moved inside at any point in his career. Listen to what you are saying, move a player that is washed up out of position and it will make him a better player?

Seriously, watch the videos and focus on Smith and it will be painfully obvious. Don't say you did because the videos are 40 minutes and you posted after 15 minutes.
Dude relax as usual. I never said it would make him a BETTER player. I said it would help because he isn't being asked to be an edge rushing RDE in a 4-3 anymore.

As much as you want to say he was washed up he still had 6sacks and 50+ tackles.

He plays nearly 85% of the snaps so his chances to look horrible increase. The reason why im advocating them keeping him is because he would make a good rotational player and fewer snaps would in theory keep him fresher.

Clearly@ 32 playing that many snaps hes going to get gassed out a lot....and as Canton mentioned sometimes u gotta knwo the responsibilites of a player and what you are looking for. If the staff wants to keep him around then i can only trust that they feel he is capable of playing.. I've just always felt like he was overpaid more or less but i don't question his play as much as some people.
 

St. Widge

Socially Distant
VIP Contributor
Joined
Mar 14, 2002
Messages
37,166
Reaction score
20,396
Age
49
Location
4th Ward Soldier
Online
1. Why didn't you put up any run plays? You know, the thing that he is going to be asked to really do in the 3-4 one gap defense we are playing.

2. I saw several plays where he got pressure. But, as has already been said, nobody thinks he is an elite player, much less an elite edge rusher. Frankly, he never was. He was always a better run defender than a pass rusher. Luckily, he won't be asked to be an edge rusher in the 3-4.

3. Sean Payton and the rest of his coaching staff looked at Smith's actual game tapes and saw him in practice and in the locker room for many years. They also know what his assignments were on those plays and know what his assignments will be in the new defensive scheme. I'll take their opinion on Will Smith over any armchair scout that we have on this or any other fan board. Regardless of how much "game tape" gets watched on this board.
 
OP
bclemms

bclemms

More than 15K posts served!
Joined
Jul 16, 2005
Messages
33,097
Reaction score
42,648
Age
12
Location
Jackson, ms
Online
The very next play he gets his hands up to create separation and read the play. He doesn't rush the QB immediately because he isn't supposed to on that play...but you and others will look at it and say he's slow off the ball

It's not your fault...it's something that most people just aren't familiar with. You have to know what you're watching
Keep trying. I realize that not every single play he was supposed to charge up the field. Are you saying that most NFL players can't watch for backside contain or put their hands up when they don't get to the QB?

Show me an impact play, I'm begging you. Quit watching the video and telling me how he is doing stuff a 3rd grader can do. Show me where teams double him constantly and it frees up another player. Show me where he is in a QBs face and forces a bad throw, show me where he hits the QB. Show me where he is in the backfield dropping a RB for a loss. Show me where he chases down a QB from behind. Show me where he runs down a back with great hussle. Show me where he delivers a big hit and forces a fumble. You can't.

Show me why he should be on the team instead of a younger player with upside. You can't do it because it isn't there.
 
OP
bclemms

bclemms

More than 15K posts served!
Joined
Jul 16, 2005
Messages
33,097
Reaction score
42,648
Age
12
Location
Jackson, ms
Online
1. Why didn't you put up any run plays? You know, the thing that he is going to be asked to really do in the 3-4 one gap defense we are playing.

2. I saw several plays where he got pressure. But, as has already been said, nobody thinks he is an elite player, much less an elite edge rusher. Frankly, he never was. He was always a better run defender than a pass rusher. Luckily, he won't be asked to be an edge rusher in the 3-4.

3. Sean Payton and the rest of his coaching staff looked at Smith's actual game tapes and saw him in practice and in the locker room for many years. They also know what his assignments were on those plays and know what his assignments will be in the new defensive scheme. I'll take their opinion on Will Smith over any armchair scout that we have on this or any other fan board. Regardless of how much "game tape" gets watched on this board.
I didn't make the tapes, CitySaint did showing Corey White. If I could do the highlights I'd do every single snap all season. He was terrible against the run too. We had one of the worst run defenses I can remember and teams gashed us by running at Will Smith all season long. If you want the stat breakdown then go to PFF and it will show you. All he is in the 34 is an undersized end. If you want to see how he looks on the inside then watch the videos, he is just as bad there.
 

St. Widge

Socially Distant
VIP Contributor
Joined
Mar 14, 2002
Messages
37,166
Reaction score
20,396
Age
49
Location
4th Ward Soldier
Online
Keep trying. I realize that not every single play he was supposed to charge up the field. Are you saying that most NFL players can't watch for backside contain or put their hands up when they don't get to the QB?

Show me an impact play, I'm begging you. Quit watching the video and telling me how he is doing stuff a 3rd grader can do. Show me where teams double him constantly and it frees up another player. Show me where he is in a QBs face and forces a bad throw, show me where he hits the QB. Show me where he is in the backfield dropping a RB for a loss. Show me where he chases down a QB from behind. Show me where he runs down a back with great hussle. Show me where he delivers a big hit and forces a fumble. You can't.

Show me why he should be on the team instead of a younger player with upside. You can't do it because it isn't there.
Show me where anyone said he was an elite playmaker.

Show me where anyone said he should be kept at anywhere near the salary that he is currently making.

Show me the young up and comer who will be cut to keep him on the roster.

Show me the young up and comer who can do as much for the team as Smith can.

Show me where you got your qualifications to evaluate NFL talent.

You can't.
 

CantonLegend

Best Looking
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
9,269
Reaction score
6,966
Offline
I didn't make the tapes, CitySaint did showing Corey White. If I could do the highlights I'd do every single snap all season. He was terrible against the run too. We had one of the worst run defenses I can remember and teams gashed us by running at Will Smith all season long. If you want the stat breakdown then go to PFF and it will show you. All he is in the 34 is an undersized end. If you want to see how he looks on the inside then watch the videos, he is just as bad there.
PFF is a joke

Something that is going to get lost in this is the contributions of citysaint. Dude posts videos of players and plays all the time. He's one of the few posters that actually has access to these films and uses it to his advantage. Whether we agree on the topic or not, we can all appreciate what citysaint is doing for the level of discussions here
 

St. Widge

Socially Distant
VIP Contributor
Joined
Mar 14, 2002
Messages
37,166
Reaction score
20,396
Age
49
Location
4th Ward Soldier
Online
I didn't make the tapes, CitySaint did showing Corey White. If I could do the highlights I'd do every single snap all season. He was terrible against the run too. We had one of the worst run defenses I can remember and teams gashed us by running at Will Smith all season long. If you want the stat breakdown then go to PFF and it will show you. All he is in the 34 is an undersized end. If you want to see how he looks on the inside then watch the videos, he is just as bad there.
He was playing in a scheme that nobody liked and his tackle numbers were almost identical to what they had been in the last few years, right around 60. And, if you look back to what he was doing in a scheme similar to what we will run this year, he was a solid player. Nobody is claiming he is elite or playmaker. The point is that he can and will be a solid contributor to the defense and it makes sense to keep him at the right salary. And, if he gets beat out by a young up and comer that's even better. But, it makes no sense to cut him now when he can at least be a solid contributor in the new scheme when you have no idea if you will have a young up and comer who's spot he will take.
 

SweetT

Old alias known as FLASH
VIP Contributor
Joined
Aug 28, 2008
Messages
15,521
Reaction score
21,965
Age
41
Location
beyond thunderdome
Offline
Bottom line-Will Smith is dead weight. Him being on the field is actually more harm than good. If anyone can't see that, then either you are blind or a homer. I might be in the minority here, but I am for trimming the fat and moving in a direction that's best for the team. Will Smith has not been a force or productive in years and he was making great $$$. Time to cut ties.
 

JimmyB1775

Guy behind the guy
Joined
Aug 1, 2012
Messages
650
Reaction score
730
Location
San Diego, CA
Offline
My opinion.

Corey White got abused a lot in zone coverage but looks to have what it takes to play man coverage. He doesn't look as bad as we've made him seem.


As far as Will Smith..its like man you are arguing the same thing most of us know but then taking it a step further.

Its been painfully obvious that last 2-3 years that Will Smith was no longer an elite edge rusher as a RDE. The two most important positions in the 4-3 are RDE and 3TEch because thats where ur pressure is expected to come from. Blindside & up the middle.

With that being said...Will Smith is still a good veteran player. The move to the 3-4 will remove him from being our edge player and put Galette or Tez on the field on the edge. Yes Will Smith's contract is not a good indicator of his play but thats the purpose for them restructuring. If we can get him@ a reasonable price then im all for keeping him. Especially since he isn't being asked to be the edge rusher in a 4-3 anymore.

Hes played in a scheme like this under 3G b4 and was productive...not elite but productive. There are more positives to keeping him @ a reasonable price then outright releasing him.

He still could be released by training camp for all we know if other guys end up showing better but above all he offers a veteran presence and leadership and SOLID play. Doeesn't hurt to keep him for 1 more year as a ROTATIONAL player.
I'm asking YOU this question due to your ridiculously detailed posts lately regarding schemes and such. How is RR's scheme similar to the one we used a few years ago? I know we put some 34 fronts up but we used so many looks those years that it'd be hard NOT to use a 34 front at some point.
 

ELLIASJWILLIAMS

More than 15K posts served!
VIP Contributor
Joined
Nov 28, 2007
Messages
17,073
Reaction score
30,412
Offline
I'm asking YOU this question due to your ridiculously detailed posts lately regarding schemes and such. How is RR's scheme similar to the one we used a few years ago? I know we put some 34 fronts up but we used so many looks those years that it'd be hard NOT to use a 34 front at some point.
From what ive gatherd 3G's scheme used 3-4 concepts. Even had a few 3-4 fronts(basic) that we would run. Are the scheme different YES..but it appears that 3G introduced quite a bit of 3-4 quirks. We even ended up drafting guys that fit the 3-4 while he was here.

Being that they come from the same tree they also share some of the basic philosophies..albeit 3G obviously prefers the 4-3 as his base...but all the other fronts are hybrid. Weve ran odd/even fronts

RR prefers a 3-4 for his base front but when we get into nickel/dime u will see the same package substitutions and all.

SOLB in 3G's scheme is basically the same is SOLB in Ryans scheme.

They set the edge, cover, then passrush. Basically in that order as far as responsiblities.

SOLB in the 3-4. Same thing. They don't rush as much as the WOLB. SAme skillset for both but they use them in different order

WOLB rush the passer, set the edge, drop in coverage.


As far as Will Smith some of the things he will be asked to do shouldn't be unfamiliar because of his prior experience.
 

Create an account or login to comment

You must be a member in order to leave a comment

Create account

Create an account on our community. It's easy!

Log in

Already have an account? Log in here.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)

Similar threads



Headlines

Top Bottom