Willie Roaf situation and Randy Mueller situation, do you know what happened? (1 Viewer)

[dtc]

The story I've always been told by the two people I know who knew Mr. B was that Mueller hid transactions from him at worst and at the least he was not forthcoming about some things Mr. B felt he should have been made aware of in advance.

 

[ndcc]

IIRC, Jim Finks' fingerprints are all over most of the great Saints who walked away in the Jim Mora years.

 

[rsmith2783]

IIRC, Jim Finks' fingerprints are all over most of the great Saints who walked away in the Jim Mora years.

Care to elaborate?

 

[Saintman2884]

Smith, I think he was just making an off-issue, non-relavent statement or opinion of just how successful, efficient , and consistently well run Jim Finks ran the Saints organization for really the first time in its storied franchise history. Just as Finks had done more so with Minnesota Vikings for 10 years as their GM from 1964-1974 and perhaps to a lesser extent Chicago Bears from 1975-82 or 83. Finks resume overall was HOF worthy but besides drafting Walter Payton and the nucleus of those great 1980's Bears defenses, honestly those teams kind of underachieved while Finks was GM there. They sort of emerged and become legendary players after he left. Finks reputation as GM of the Bears was controversial, he knew how to draft good college prospects but the Bears FO and ownership in the 1970s was perceived as cheap, inefficient, prone to making dumb or impulsive decisions, Finks refused to trade for Kenny Stabler in 1979, his reason: We're happy with who we have now. WTF? Stabler, despite his flaws, was a 4-time Pro Bowler and a SB-winning QB with Oakland, and by the late 70s, still had a few good years left in him. If Stabler had gone to Chicago instead of Houston in 1980, he might've been able to contribute more then being just the guy who handed off to Earl Campbell. Finks also refused to draft Joe Montana when pretty much all the Bears pro scouts, personnel dept advised him to, some Bears players, including Walter Payton, sincerely believed on Draft Day 1979 the Bears were going to draft Montana and were shocked when they didn't.

Reportedly, Finks also had a chance to hire Bill Walsh as HC after Jack Pardee left via the 1977 season but instead went with an old, tired retread, mediocre HC in Neill Armstrong. Luckily for us as Saints fans, or Cubs or Vikings fans, the version of Finks we got was a lot better informed, less impulsive, not as panicky, and shrewder then the ones Bears endured for nearly a decade.

Maybe it was working for or around George Halas, Bears legendary owner. I've heard stories from Bears fans over the years that as he got older, he became harder to work with, more cantankerous, difficult, surly and combatitive with Bears FO personnel and didn't tolerate dissent from his "underlings" as he saw his employees. A lot of great, legendary Chicago Bears players didn't exactly have good, warm feelings towards Halas or left Chicago on the best of terms via trades or retirement: Butkus, Doug Atkins, Gale Sayers, Mike Ditka, Bobby Douglas, Jack Pardee just to name a few.

 

[ndcc]

Care to elaborate?

The following article is really insightful, and paints a better picture of how much Jim Finks played HARD BALL. Bobby Hebert wasn't the only one. You have to consider Sam Mills, Rickey Jackson, Willie Roaf and others. Finks' philosophy in the Saints Front Office was driving the train... and also driving a hard bargain with the players (IMO).

Finks, along with Jim Mora put the Saints on the football map. But he (Finks) really disliked players pushing the envelope for money.
He just would not adjust to the changing NFL. What he didn't figure on was Hebert's hard stance and that the players would win in court. That court case cost him his shot to be NFL commissioner.

Bobby Hebert holdout in 1990 altered Saints, NFL history

It also happened to include one of the defining trades in Saints history.

www.wwltv.com

 

[Saintman2884]

Ndcc, it didn't help him either he made some pretty powerful enemies among several NFL owners who made it their mission or priority to prevent him from becoming commissioner. They were Fred Lynn of the Minnesota Vikings, scumbag Robert Irsay of the Indianapolis Colts, and Jerry Jones IIRC of the Cowboys who launched a successful blocking of Finks becoming commissioner after Rozelle's retirement.

 

[Super44]

I knew the head custodian at the time And he knew the barber for Mueller who knew the barber for Haslett, who knew the hairstylist for the cheerleader, who knew the veterinarian for Joe Horn’s dog, who knew the landscaper for Willie Roaf. They all knew something. That is what I heard from Mr. Benson’s valet.

 

[latechsaint26]

I work with Joe Johnson’s old backup.

I’ll ask him if he heard the full story at work Tuesday.

 

[RJ in Lafayette]

We seem to be veering this thread in a different direction. And ironically there is a general manager thread currently on the forum.

Finks was certainly hard-nosed and old school. But his real last year as GM was 1992. He was diagnosed with lung cancer in 1993 and died in 1994. Andersen and Mills left in free agency in 1995. Blame him for the Walsh trade, but not for free agency departures after his death.

 

[Moon]

Back to Mueller: I had read that he had set up cameras & microphones around the office to listen in on conversations, also there was a major power struggle between him & Arnie Fielkow, & that Benson was growing angry with him for making major player moves (Ricky Williams trade) without at least informing him about it. Once Benson caught wind of the spy equipment, that was the last straw.

 

[football]

We seem to be veering this thread in a different direction. And ironically there is a general manager thread currently on the forum.

Finks was certainly hard-nosed and old school. But his real last year as GM was 1992. He was diagnosed with lung cancer in 1993 and died in 1994. Andersen and Mills left in free agency in 1995. Blame him for the Walsh trade, but not for free agency departures after his death.

Yeah I don't know why people here change the subject from Mueller to Finks. It makes the flow of the conversation confusing. Smh

 

[insidejob]

The way I remember it was like this: Mueller was doing shady sheet that Benson would only learn about after the fact. Both with player trades/acquisitions and also covering up sheet with Benson's money without letting Benson know about it. I think it's why Benson was willing to give the keys to Loomis and Payton when he got too old to be an active part of actual team business. He told them about Mueller and Haslett before hiring them and made it clear that wasn't going to happen on his watch again - especially since he was not as capable as keeping watch as he was then - and they both came through for Mr. Benson by being his guys and the results since then prove so.

 

[HouseCall]

Back to Mueller: I had read that he had set up cameras & microphones around the office to listen in on conversations, also there was a major power struggle between him & Arnie Fielkow, & that Benson was growing angry with him for making major player moves (Ricky Williams trade) without at least informing him about it. Once Benson caught wind of the spy equipment, that was the last straw.

I’d always heard it was the Williams trade that was the “straw that broke the camels back” with Benson.

I seem to recall Benson learned about the Williams trade from either the media or another owner and that it infuriated and embarrassed his that he was left out of the loop on such a big trade. The trade of a player whom the team had traded an entire draft for just 3 years earlier.

I’d always heard Benson felt like Mueller got too arrogant and was doing too much without consulting him.

As for Arnie Fielkow, he was one of Benson’s guys who was pushing the new stadium issue in 2001. He was the mouth piece for the the “give us a new stadium or tell us to leave” movement.

Interestingly Fielkow fell out of favor with Benson after Katrina because he wouldn’t support Benson’s desire to relocate the team to San Antonio permanently.

 

[NOLAJM504]

Well. I would just like to say that this thread has officially pinged my Saints PTSD, lol. That said, it has also reminded me how happy I am that the dysfunctional regime we were stuck with back then are long gone. Oh, how thankful I am to have the current people in place. Thank you Sean and Mickey!

 

[Mamba]

Mueller.
Fielkow.
Rita.

Three powerful individuals in the Saints organization who were once closely trusted by Benson and then promptly cut off, all within the span of a single decade.

I'm not making a point. I just think it's an interesting pattern.