Without Sean Payton, Mickey Loomis record is 32-44 right now (1 Viewer)

Loco Hornet Fan

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I’m usually not a fan of the “take away this really seminal play/decision/etc and person X looks a lot worse” logic games.

For all of his mistakes (which comes with the GM job), he DID hire Payton. And Sean Payton coached the team to a Super Bowl and the best 15 year stretch in franchise history, beginning with the deck stacked against him.

I don’t think it is fair to throw out 15 seasons, and instead, favor weighing some inherited Hasslett years and this current, though hopefully brief, DA tenure (which IS a mess), as the significant indicators.

I’m not even saying he doesn’t deserve to be removed/re-assigned. But I don’t think removing Sean Payton from Loomis’ résumé actually reveals anything.
 
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Mueller got axed after the 01’ season. Benson claimed it was due Mueller not consulting him on the Ricky Williams trade but it’s been speculated that he was fired for non-football reasons.

So technically Loomis became full GM in 02’ with an inherited coach.

He hired Payton. That earns him a pass on Allen in my book. But what he does going forward is going to determine his worth in this rebuild.
Good points. I would not doubt Loomis might just retire since he is near that age and ride into sunset.

Lots of ??? For next season

What to do with Michael Thomas

Future QB

Kamara suspension

What to do with Dennis Allen

and so on
 
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Ross Jackson said on his post game podcast that the Saints probably hired the wrong coach. Dudes been an eternal optimist all year on sounding the alarm over Dennis Allen, Jackson says that, you're in trouble.
 

tarusman28

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Mueller got axed after the 01’ season. Benson claimed it was due Mueller not consulting him on the Ricky Williams trade but it’s been speculated that he was fired for non-football reasons.

So technically Loomis became full GM in 02’ with an inherited coach.

He hired Payton. That earns him a pass on Allen in my book. But what he does going forward is going to determine his worth in this rebuild.
I agree with everything that you said above. But Loomis already earn his credit as being one of the best GM in the NFL with the hire of Sean Payton, which lead to a Superbowl title, several NFC Championship appearance, and several NFC South division titles.

Besides Loomis was responsible for countless transactions that made the Saints one of the best teams in the NFL for 15 years. So I don't think the Mickey Loomis needs to evaluated anything. He's already proven his value.
 

Saint Jack

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Ross Jackson said on his post game podcast that the Saints probably hired the wrong coach. Dudes been an eternal optimist all year on sounding the alarm over Dennis Allen, Jackson says that, you're in trouble.
I think it’s becoming clear that DA is one and done.
How can you sell season tickets with a losing coach? And not just a few games. DA is 12-36. Historically bad.
 
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Rick Mueller, Randy's brother, was the personnel guy after Loomis took over as GM. Haslett also had a lot of input on free agents and draft choices.
 

Judge_Smails

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Ross Jackson said on his post game podcast that the Saints probably hired the wrong coach. Dudes been an eternal optimist all year on sounding the alarm over Dennis Allen, Jackson says that, you're in trouble.
It’s like when Cronkite said the war in Vietnam couldn’t be won.

If Ross has soured on the prospects of DA’s success that means most fans and neutral observers have as well.
 

HouseCall

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So I don't think the Mickey Loomis needs to evaluated anything. He's already proven his value.
Perhaps. But also look at the fact that the only reason Loomis wasn’t run out on a rail along with Payton after the 3 consecutive 7-9 seasons of 2014-16 was because Jeff Ireland helped refocus a really poor draft and scouting strategy that had led poor talent and poor depth at all 3 phases.

Ireland is as much responsible for the success we had from 2017 to 2021 as Payton and Loomis.

Ireland is in the building now. But he won’t be forever.

So I guess what I was implying is that Loomis was supposed to be a “cap guy” and we are in cap hell more often than not in his tenure. Loomis isn’t really a talent guy as aside from the 06’ draft where we were drafting in the 2nd spot of every round - his drafts were lacking until Ireland joined the team.

Which begs the question - he isn’t great with the cap and he’s not a talent evaluator. So what is it he actually does well?

I’m seriously asking.
 

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If you liked the Haslett era. Well yeah you are right. Nothing to see here. At least we will get a good first round draft pick. Wait a minute…

Team is loaded with talent

Landry Thomas Olave Hardy Smith/Callaway etc

Lattimore
Taylor
Adebo
Roby

Pj , Mathieu , Maye

Dline having 3 1st round DEs
Sane DTs from last year

You would think this team would be able to muster 10-12 wins but that just shows you how much conditioning medical staff , coaching matters.

Winston , Dalton , Hill don’t matter we should have at least 6 wins right now and I would bet if Payton were here we’d be at 7-8 wins minimum.
 

tarusman28

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Perhaps. But also look at the fact that the only reason Loomis wasn’t run out on a rail along with Payton after the 3 consecutive 7-9 seasons of 2014-16 was because Jeff Ireland helped refocus a really poor draft and scouting strategy that had led poor talent and poor depth at all 3 phases.

Ireland is as much responsible for the success we had from 2017 to 2021 as Payton and Loomis.

Ireland is in the building now. But he won’t be forever.

So I guess what I was implying is that Loomis was supposed to be a “cap guy” and we are in cap hell more often than not in his tenure. Loomis isn’t really a talent guy as aside from the 06’ draft where we were drafting in the 2nd spot of every round - his drafts were lacking until Ireland joined the team.

Which begs the question - he isn’t great with the cap and he’s not a talent evaluator. So what is it he actually does well?

I’m seriously asking.
Well, during that time the Director of college scouting was Rick Reiprish and the Director of player personnel was Ryan Pace. Rick Reiprish was let go. He went to the Steelers. And Ryan Pace eventually went to Chicago Bears. So I doubt that Loomis was calling the shots on what players to bring in during that time.
 

tarusman28

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So I guess what I was implying is that Loomis was supposed to be a “cap guy” and we are in cap hell more often than not in his tenure. Loomis isn’t really a talent guy as aside from the 06’ draft where we were drafting in the 2nd spot of every round - his drafts were lacking until Ireland joined the team.

Which begs the question - he isn’t great with the cap and he’s not a talent evaluator. So what is it he actually does well?

I’m seriously asking.

Mickey Loomis is listed as the Saints General Manager and Executive Vice President. He's considered to be one of the longest tenured General Managers in the NFL. And I have to disagree about him not being a great cap guy. He was able to get the Saints under the salary cap without letting players go for several years now.
 
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Loomis made a bunch of blunders. You could have paid T.Hendrickson but you chose to put faith in an oft injured DT who you traded two 1's for when Lamar Jackson was still on the board. Used a franchise tag on Marcus Williams who walked a year later, you got rid of Vonn Bell because Williams was balling out, 2 for 1 double fail. You traded CJGJ who was/is leading the NFL in interceptions, rather than trying to make it work for 1 more year and then traded him for peanuts. You let Malcom Brown walk who was an effective run stopper. Marcus Maye is a 100% downgrade and has not lived up to the hype thus far, now safety goes from a point of strength to weakness. Waited way too long to address the QB position knowing Brees was basically year to year. Hired Dennis Allen that went against league trends and also hired a guy who was bad in his first stop and no other organization was blowing up the phone to interview him.

The whole coaching search felt like a sham to the fans from day 1.
 
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Loomis made a bunch of blunders. You could have paid T.Hendrickson but you chose to put faith in an oft injured DT who you traded two 1's for when Lamar Jackson was still on the board. Used a franchise tag on Marcus Williams who walked a year later, you got rid of Vonn Bell because Williams was balling out, 2 for 1 double fail. You traded CJGJ who was/is leading the NFL in interceptions, rather than trying to make it work for 1 more year and then traded him for peanuts. You let Malcom Brown walk who was an effective run stopper. Marcus Maye is a 100% downgrade and has not lived up to the hype thus far, now safety goes from a point of strength to weakness. Waited way too long to address the QB position knowing Brees was basically year to year. Hired Dennis Allen that went against league trends and also hired a guy who was bad in his first stop and no other organization was blowing up the phone to interview him.

The whole coaching search felt like a sham to the fans from day 1.
In a salary cap league you can't keep and pay all of your good players. On a stacked roster, tough decisions have to be made and sometimes good players get. Sure you could have paid Hendrickson or Williams, but that would have meant someone else leaving or getting cut from an area we probably couldn't afford to lose anyone from at the time.
 
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In a salary cap league you can't keep and pay all of your good players. On a stacked roster, tough decisions have to be made and sometimes good players get. Sure you could have paid Hendrickson or Williams, but that would have meant someone else leaving or getting cut from an area we probably couldn't afford to lose anyone from at the time.

That move was horrendous though, it had catastrophic implications. You franchise a guy because you need time to work out a long term deal, you were paying either a 13.5 sack guy who you could move around and cause havoc that the Saints haven't had in a long time or Williams. You let Hendrickson out of the door and don't pay Williams a year later, and you've regressed at two critical positions on the field. It's gonna be a miracle if Davenport is here next year, in a contract year, he's been way below standard for what they invested in. I would have mentioned letting Kwon walk but you surprisingly caught lightning in a bottle with Kaden Ellis.

Loomis let way too much talent out of the door and we're seeing it every Sunday. The only positives this season is that it appears you hit on Alontae Taylor, Kaden Ellis belongs on the field, Demario Davis still has it and Werner looks to be an elite talent. Ruiz has had his epiphany where the light turned on.
 

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