Without Sean Payton, Mickey Loomis record is 32-44 right now (1 Viewer)

[liveoakh]

I don't think it's a coincidence that the Pelicans fortunes started to turn when they hired David Griffin and relieved Loomis of his Pels responsibilities. Loomis has made many questionable moves and his absurd handling of the salary cap, kicking the can down the road year after year, has really hurt our depth and our ability in the draft.

Truth

 

[liveoakh]

Seems like an empty stat to justify the persecution of someone with misleading statistics.I'm just telling you the tru

Persecution is a very strong word. Is that your intention? Loomis has only a winning record with Sean.

 

[tarusman28]

You have to be kidding me man. Get a grip! There was no real genius in Loomis signing Sean or Brees. The Saints were not either of their first choices. Loomis was looking at McCarthy first and then Sean, after McCarthy took the GB job. Loomis signed Sean by default. We signed what was left over. We only got Brees, because Miami took one look Drew's medical file and low balled the hell out of him. Then signed Culpepper. That's how Sean/Drew ended up with the Saints. That's just the truth.

Every fan that has been around since the paper bag days knows that The Sean/Loomis sucked, why do you think they brought in Ireland in the first place? Sean called the shoots here, not Loomis. Loomis is a Cap guy.......that's it. Sean is a better GM than Loomis.

LOL. Did it really matter whether the saints got Payton or McCarthy both turn their teams around and won a Championship. But the only difference between the two is that Sean left the Saints on his own terms. McCarthy was kicked out of Green Bay. Also Payton has more playoff wins than McCarthy.

And at least Sean can turn decent QB into a really good one look at Winston, Bridgewater, and Brees under Payton. Believe it or not Drew was benched in San Diego and they drafted Rivers to eventually replace him. McCarthy didn't make any QB that he coached better. They made him a better coach. And Dallas just has a talented team.

The Dolphins made a big mistake letting Drew go. Saban admitted that. Their Doctors didn't even think he could still throw the football. They brought in Jeff Ireland because he has a good track record of bringing in talented defensive players. Rick Reiprish and Rick Mueller was fired because they could not do that.

Who do you think traded Ricky Williams to the Dolphins for two 1st round picks? That was Loomis. And He traded Jimmy Graham to the Seahawks for a 1st round pick and Max Uger. Also, Loomis traded a 4th round pick in 2008 and 3rd round pick in 2009 to get Jonathan Vilma, one of the best linebackers in NFL.

 

[liveoakh]

Who do you think traded Ricky Williams to the Dolphins for two 1st round picks? That was Loomis. And He traded Jimmy Graham to the Seahawks for a 1st round pick and Max Uger. Also, Loomis traded a 4th round pick in 2008 and 3rd round pick in 2009 to get Jonathan Vilma, one of the best linebackers in NFL.

Dolphins move swiftly, name Mueller as GM

MIAMI — The Miami Dolphins didn’t wait long to hire a general manager, appointing Randy Mueller on Monday, three days after Rick Spielman’s resignation. ESPN reported Mueller sign…

www.orlandosentinel.com

I think Randy Mueller made that trade for Ricky Williams to Miami. Who do you think made it?

Mueller was fired in May 2002 after a falling-out with owner Tom Benson, who claimed major personnel moves like the trade that sent tailback Ricky Williams to the Dolphins were being done without his approval.

After Sean went to the NFCCG in his 1st yr, he was making the call on the rest of those trades.

 

[RiverRat]

Here is what we do:

We show up on a day SP is broadcasting. All dressed as elves wielding photos of him with random women, claiming that he is our father. Come home dad. Get to know your long lost kids.

 

[Snakehead]

Or he was incredibly lucky!! You telling me it was Loomis's GM acumen, that got us Sean?

I have explained it to you in great length how CSP and Brees was an act of luck. We got what was left over. You give loomis to much credit for McCarthy taking the GB job and sending Sean to us, and Culpepper being signed by Miami. sent Brees to us. loomis at the time was like all of us, in doubting whether Brees could come back from that surgery. He rolled the dice.


No, what I am saying is Loomis road the coat tails of Sean/Ireland, and is an empty suit when is comes to being a real GM. Post Sean he has been a real -0- in the GM department. Show me something good Loomis did without Sean's name on it. He has only made two head coaching hires..............EVER !!!!! One hire was wildly successful, and the other has been an abject failure.

I give credit where credit is due, which is something that you have a hard time doing. You cannot say that ML didn't identify CSP as a coaching option, nor can you say that ML/CSP didn't identify DB as a QB option. Both were identified and then hired/signed. Was there some luck involved that Saban's medical staff bet on the wrong player being healthy or that McCarthy got a different job first, sure, but luck was NOT the only factor which is your argument.

"Luck is the intersection of preparation and opportunity." - Roman philosopher Seneca

ML prepared his list of candidates and CSP was on it.
The opportunity to hire CSP occurred when GB hired McCarthy.

Credit to ML for making that happen.

ML/CSP prepared a list of QB candidates Romo and Brees being 2 of them.
Dallas refused to trade Romo.
Miami picked Culpepper over Brees.
Opportunity for ML/CSP to sign Brees and they took it because they prepared for it.

Credit to ML/CSP for making that happen.

See how easy it is to give someone credit for their decisions even if it wasn't their first choices.

 

[SystemShock]

That's why they say statistics are like bikinis...

This is not meant to defend Loomis, but context is context.

32 of those 76 games are the season after Katrina and the season Payton was suspended.

And it's not like he inherited the 2001 Patriots.

 

[tarusman28]

Dolphins move swiftly, name Mueller as GM

MIAMI — The Miami Dolphins didn’t wait long to hire a general manager, appointing Randy Mueller on Monday, three days after Rick Spielman’s resignation. ESPN reported Mueller sign…

www.orlandosentinel.com

I think Randy Mueller made that trade for Ricky Williams to Miami. Who do you think made it?

Mueller was fired in May 2002 after a falling-out with owner Tom Benson, who claimed major personnel moves like the trade that sent tailback Ricky Williams to the Dolphins were being done without his approval.

After Sean went to the NFCCG in his 1st yr, he was making the call on the rest of those trades.

Ok I stand corrected on the Ricky Williams trade.

So you are saying that not only Sean Payton was developing and going over game plans for the offense, calling plays for the offense, coaching the team, but he was also handling the team trades? Where did he find the time to do all those things. Maybe because Payton wasn't making trades.

Below is proof that Loomis was in talks with Seahawks general manager John Schneider about trading Jimmy Graham, not Sean Payton.

Saints GM Mickey Loomis: Jimmy Graham trade 'evolved'

New Orleans Saints GM Mickey Loomis said the Saints felt like they could afford to trade offense to acquire resources that may help on defense.

www.espn.com

Below is another link to an article about Loomis doing research on Vilma's background with the Jets before trading for him. No mention of Sean Payton being involved either.

Hi Jenkins, Bye Vilma; Faneca next?

By PAUL SCHWARTZAs expected, the Jets hit the ground running when the NFL’s free agency period began today, acquiring DT Kris Jenkins and gettting rid of LB Jonathan Vilma in separate trades.…

nypost.com

 

[DSnfla]

1.) I wasn’t, but plenty of people around here were all in on the Watson thing. I suspect plenty of those same people will wish we had him if he plays well for the Browns.

2.) I have no way of knowing if Loomis was behind that decision or if DA and/or Ireland thought that letting Williams walk and bringing in Maye and Mathieu was the better decision. The Ceedy trade was DAs decision as far as we’ve all been lead to believe. He wasn’t willing to play the contract out and thought our offer was a lowball. If anything that’s on DA and the secondary coaches for not recognizing we had an in-house replacement at one of the safety spots and suggesting we pay him accordingly, rather than bring in one of the other players mentioned above.

3.) Actually agree with this but it’s with the benefit of hindsight. Everyone thought this team was better than their record last season. Most people thought the off-season was solid right up until the shipped CGJ off the week of the first game. With hindsight they definitely over estimated where expectations should be but as I’ve mentioned in other threads they could easily blame injuries for that, much like last year, if they wanted to.

4.) If you really believe this then it’s not Loomis that needs to go but DA for sure and possibly Ireland as well. If Loomis is just the cap guy and the HC and Ireland are the personnel guys then they’re the ones who made the personnel decisions and are responsible for who’s on the field.

5.) See above really, if it was all Sean and Ireland as far as recruitment goes then why is it suddenly Loomis job to bring in the QB of the future? Payton should’ve been done that, but chose to try to groom 4th rounders, kick the tires on FAs like Bridgewater and Winston, and experiment with Taysom Hill.

It’s been said for ages that Loomis is the cap guy and negotiator and Payton is in charge of personnel with Ireland having a large input in the draft room. I have no idea if that changed when DA was hired but if it didn’t then the personnel issues fall on Ireland and the previous and current HC.

WOW , A voice of reason

 

[DSnfla]

Ok I stand corrected on the Ricky Williams trade.

So you are saying that not only Sean Payton was developing and going over game plans for the offense, calling plays for the offense, coaching the team, but he was also handling the team trades? Where did he find the time to do all those things. Maybe because Payton wasn't making trades.

Below is proof that Loomis was in talks with Seahawks general manager John Schneider about trading Jimmy Graham, not Sean Payton.

Saints GM Mickey Loomis: Jimmy Graham trade 'evolved'

New Orleans Saints GM Mickey Loomis said the Saints felt like they could afford to trade offense to acquire resources that may help on defense.

www.espn.com

Below is another link to an article about Loomis doing research on Vilma's background with the Jets before trading for him. No mention of Sean Payton being involved either.

Hi Jenkins, Bye Vilma; Faneca next?

By PAUL SCHWARTZAs expected, the Jets hit the ground running when the NFL’s free agency period began today, acquiring DT Kris Jenkins and gettting rid of LB Jonathan Vilma in separate trades.…

nypost.com

It's quite naive to think that SP was not behind EVERY player personal decision. Every transaction every trade would have been run by him. If Seattle called and asked if JG was available? Mickey's 1st call would have been to SP. Heck I'll bet SP told Micky who was available or not SP does not need to be mentioned in an article to know that he was involved LOL

 

[DSnfla]

man you are seriously messed up, you contradict yourself three ways to Sunday in one post.

Is Loomis responsible for Identifying the talent, or Do Sean and Ireland get credit for that?

If Sean and Ireland are responsible for identifying the talent , How is it Loomis fault?

Do You personally know Loomis? If not how do you know he was the one pushing for Watson? Was it DA and Ireland? Now that Sean is gone aren't they the ones who get credit for identifying the talent?

You sir are so far out on a limb there is no hope for you . You think you know but you don't even know what you think. @Madmarsha queue up the Mora video

Thank goodness someone gets it

 

[DSnfla]

No it's not. We wanted McCarthy, and he chose GB. That isn't a selection. That is a default. It is only the right choice in hindsight. Loomis found a million dollar lottery ticket w/ Sean/Drew.

You don't know that!!!! SP was hired BEFORE McCarthy. You keep spouting off these things that have NEVER been confirmed only rumored. Get a grip man

 

[tarusman28]

It's quite naive to think that SP was not behind EVERY player personal decision. Every transaction every trade would have been run by him. If Seattle called and asked if JG was available? Mickey's 1st call would have been to SP. Heck I'll bet SP told Micky who was available or not SP does not need to be mentioned in an article to know that he was involved LOL

Yes of course Sean Payton was behind every player personnel decision. The defensive and special teams coordinators are involved in some of them as well because they need to know who are they bringing in and how would they fit into the team offensive, defensive, and special teams systems. The coordinators may know about some of these players from working with them on other teams and can provide input.

Beside Sean gives final approval on all player decisions.

The point that I was making Mickey Loomis is alot more involved player transactions and he knows how to handle those type of situations. He's not just a GM in title only.

 

[Yatman]

every offseason and on into camp, this board buzzes about loomis "making it happen", often with hoped for acquisitions

still, there's always grumbling about our cap, in that he's unable to go after ______________ (insert your dream player)

then when losses start to pile up, he is somehow responsible for bad drafts, no money, poor play, injuries, and all other b.s.

he picked and worked hand-in-glove with a hof coach that recommended his successor

loomis is a businessman who's done very well by the saints; those who don't believe it are ignorant of business and/or saints history

4.) Why does Loomis get the credit for Sean and Ireland's work? Loomis never picked the talent.

5.) Why does Loomis get a pass, for not finding a legit QB over the last 3 yrs?

a perfect example... which is it, 4 or 5

smh

 

[liveoakh]

So you are saying that not only Sean Payton was developing and going over game plans for the offense, calling plays for the offense, coaching the team, but he was also handling the team trades? Where did he find the time to do all those things. Maybe because Payton wasn't making trades.

Well, yes is exactly what I am saying. Parcells, Holmgren, and Shanohan all HOF coaches managed nicely having the GM and coaching duties.

Below is proof that Loomis was in talks with Seahawks general manager John Schneider about trading Jimmy Graham, not Sean Payton.

I'm sure that is true, right after he cleared it with Sean. Sean had veto power on all trades. How do you not already know this. You really think Loomis made that call to trade Jimmy? lol

Saints, Jets reach deal to send Vilma to Big Easy

The Saints have completed a trade with the Jets to acquire linebacker Jonathan Vilma.

www.espn.com

Below is another link to an article about Loomis doing research on Vilma's background with the Jets before trading for him. No mention of Sean Payton being involved either.

What research??? They were shopping an all pro LB,.............Loomis for the lay up.

The Jets decided to shop him in a trade a couple of weeks ago, with the Lions and the Saints showing the most interest. The Saints worked out a trade Friday morning; the pick in exchange for Vilma could upgrade to a third-rounder depending on how Vilma's season goes.