Woman jailed, stripsearched and beaten for :GASP: sitting by a man at a Starbucks (1 Viewer)

[rob021275]

This is the thing...

I think we can all agree that we have quirky and even absurd religiously-driven laws in this country.

The glaring difference here is that we (legally) don't strip and assault suspects. Yes, there are occasionally issues with domestic police abuse and abuse by military personnel in detention camps. But if those doing the abusing are caught, they will be prosecuted as well.

Here's another massive problem with this whole thing: She committed a "great sin" (which is related to sexual temptation/lust) by sitting next to a man. How did those who did the stripsearching and assault not commit an equally lustful/violent act? But I guess that is justified.

 

[V Chip]

Oh so it's ok because those are the "police." I see.

I'm sorry, but you're not going to get me to see a direct correlation between a woman sitting next to a male co-worker for coffee because the electricity was out in their office and videoing,selling and profitting illegal underage pornography and the exploitation of children.

Again you're reaching.

Sure there are some laws that I think are a bit much, but as you can see our country has taken a more human rights approach, hence the end of segregation. Yes, minorities may still have it rougher than others, but tell me if something like this happened in our country if people wouldn't be crying for justice more?

Ok, a few things.

1) I am not saying it is OK, never once have I said that or implied it. You want to infer that, so you DO infer it. Personally I think that it is ridiculous to have a law that someone's religion dictates to everyone in that municipality/region/country.

2) I never made a direct correlation. I made a comparison, and the two are different.

3) I did not mention ANYTHING about illegal underage pornography or exploitation of children. That is ENTIRELY your injection into the argument, and I resent the attempt to make to seem like I said that.

 

[DadsDream]

Again, did you read the story?



They're the police, enforcing the laws of their country.

Uhh...not exactly, V Chip.

The Muttah are a quasi-police and they enforce the religious restrictions based on widely varying opinions which have been made by various religious leaders.

What is totally prohibited by a religious leader in one area may be OK in another. There is no single, all-encompassing set of rules. Instead, there's the Koran as a general guide and hundreds of years of written opinions and the current religious leaders to obey.

They're called "police" but they're not really police. The closest parallel I can think of (please forgive the reference here) is the Brown Shirts, who beat and abused people who didn't meet their standards for being German.

 

[Det. Brees]

i dont agree with what happened to her, but you have to obey the laws of the country your visiting.....

 

[Complex Kid]

I never said she wasn't "in the wrong" based on their laws. I was asking why there isn't more of a public outcry against their absurd laws.

We only turn a blind eye in this country because of money, oil, and the need for a military foothold in the vicinity.

 

[V Chip]

Uhh...not exactly, V Chip.

The Muttah are a quasi-police and they enforce the religious restrictions based on widely varying opinions which have been made by various religious leaders.

What is totally prohibited by a religious leader in one area may be OK in another. There is no single, all-encompassing set of rules. Instead, there's the Koran as a general guide and hundreds of years of written opinions and the current religious leaders to obey.

They're called "police" but they're not really police. The closest parallel I can think of (please forgive the reference here) is the Brown Shirts, who beat and abused people who didn't meet their standards for being German.

Then the story mis-represented them as a police force, and thus my comparison to a Vice Squad is inaccurate.

Again, I'm NOT defending them or what they did. My comment was strictly because I find it odd that we have so many people in the US who want to make our country's laws MORE religious, yet point to stories like this or other religious laws of other countries/religions as backwards/ridiculous.

 

[keepoursaints]

Ok, a few things.

1) I am not saying it is OK, never once have I said that or implied it. You want to infer that, so you DO infer it. Personally I think that it is ridiculous to have a law that someone's religion dictates to everyone in that municipality/region/country.

2) I never made a direct correlation. I made a comparison, and the two are different.

3) I did not mention ANYTHING about illegal underage pornography or exploitation of children. That is ENTIRELY your injection into the argument, and I resent the attempt to make to seem like I said that.

Last time I checked though it was legal to open a Porno shop if it is allowed in the region/district etc, so I couldn't think of another reason why a shop would be a raided and arrests would be made if they weren't doing something illegal like child porn. I figured that's what you meant and didn't mean to insuate that you were pro-child pornography.

I still think that some of your comparisons are a bit of a reach, so we'll just have to agree to disagree. You may have never said it was OK, but there have been a few posts in here that basically state "well it's their law", etc. Again, my point of this thread was that I thought it was completely mind blowing that in this day in age, any country would think some of these laws are acceptable in their treatment of other humans.

 

[DadsDream]

i dont agree with what happened to her, but you have to obey the laws of the country your visiting.....

Y'all are missing the point. These are not the laws of Saudi Arabia. These are the rulings of the Wahibbi religious leaders who exercise their authority outside of the official governmental laws with the tacit approval of the monarchy.

 

[keepoursaints]

Then the story mis-represented them as a police force, and thus my comparison to a Vice Squad is inaccurate.

Again, I'm NOT defending them or what they did. My comment was strictly because I find it odd that we have so many people in the US who want to make our country's laws MORE religious, yet point to stories like this or other religious laws of other countries/religions as backwards/ridiculous.

But how many religions in our country promote killing people who don't believe in their views because it's the honorable thing to do?

Just for the record, I think no alcohol sales on Sunday is retarted and there are plenty others that I disagree with, but I don't think there are many the are comparable to arresting/beating/interrogating a person for sitting next to another person.

That's where my disagreement with your posts came from. It just seems like a reach to me personally.

 

[RazorOye]

I was asking why there isn't more of a public outcry against their absurd laws.

You don't see it as being a just a tad bit overkill to arrest, stripsearch someone and beat them for sitting next to someone.

Who says there is not objection to their laws? I don't see anyone here condoning the behavior.

But you are drawing a very, very poor comparison.

We were outraged at the treatment of the prisoners of war because of the inhumanity, but those acts were perpetrated by Americans citizens and soldiers.

Had the woman had this done to her in Seattle for touching a man, I imagine the outcry would have been intense. But was done on foreign soil and the cruelty of the treatment was not at the hands of American citizens.

I think there is a universal disgust for some of the barbaric treatments, even Disney has made commentary (cf. opening score of Aladdin).

Personally, I found the price paid for the crime to be tragic and not commensurate in the least.

But there is also something to be said about understanding the laws and customs in another part of the world.

What bothers me most about the hypocrisy of human suffering is the manner in which the State officially recognizes some human suffering as worth our intervention in some places in the world, but not others.

If you want something to be angry at, why not inquire as to why we prioritize some human mistreatment worth our attention and assistance while other places in the world are ignored even though the violence directed toward innocents is even greater than in places where we have no presence.

 

[keepoursaints]

Y'all are missing the point. These are not the laws of Saudi Arabia. These are the rulings of the Wahibbi religious leaders who exercise their authority outside of the official governmental laws with the tacit approval of the monarchy.

Thank you DD, I wasn't even aware of that and I think that should make even more of an outcry.

 

[saintfan-n-alex]

Then the story mis-represented them as a police force, and thus my comparison to a Vice Squad is inaccurate.

Again, I'm NOT defending them or what they did. My comment was strictly because I find it odd that we have so many people in the US who want to make our country's laws MORE religious, yet point to stories like this or other religious laws of other countries/religions as backwards/ridiculous.

i dont think they want to make laws more religious - there are 2 main points that the religious right week wants to do away with

gay marriage
abortion

its just some consider these the only 2 reasons to vote for someone - meanwhile their pastor has "friends" all over town, sometimes anyway

 

[keepoursaints]

Who says there is not objection to their laws? I don't see anyone here condoning the behavior.

But you are drawing a very, very poor comparison.

We were outraged at the treatment of the prisoners of war because of the inhumanity, but those acts were perpetrated by Americans citizens and soldiers.

Had the woman had this done to her in Seattle for touching a man, I imagine the outcry would have been intense. But was done on foreign soil and the cruelty of the treatment was not at the hands of American citizens.

I think there is a universal disgust for some of the barbaric treatments, even Disney has made commentary (cf. opening score of Aladdin).

Personally, I found the price paid for the crime to be tragic and not commensurate in the least.

But there is also something to be said about understanding the laws and customs in another part of the world.

What bothers me most about the hypocrisy of human suffering is the manner in which the State officially recognizes some human suffering as worth our intervention in some places in the world, but not others.

If you want something to be angry at, why not inquire as to why we prioritize some human mistreatment worth our attention and assistance while other places in the world are ignored even though the violence directed toward innocents is even greater than in places where we have no presence.

I can agree with you there.

 

[kcirdor]

But how many religions in our country promote killing people who don't believe in their views because it's the honorable thing to do?

That really does not matter. They have been taught the same thing for thousands of years and they adhere to it. They have no choice but to agree or they might be killed or banished. Sounds alot like Medieval times and the spread of christianity to me. Christianity just adopts different views every century or so or else non believers would still be getting killed.

 

[keepoursaints]

That doesn't make one right or wrong, but atleast Christianity and other religions seem to have atleast learned from their pasts and changed things. What is done in the past lives on through history and can't be changed, but cultures and beliefs can be changed for the better. ie. Slavery and civil rights. What was done is done, but changes have been made.

While others apprently have bothered.