Poll Would you rather...(Another Hill vs. Winston thread and poll) Mod edit (1 Viewer)

[Saint Kamara]

After Brees retires, let's say the the proverbial light comes on for Winston, he grows up, becomes a leader, the Lasik surgery and SP's coaching make him the best he can be.

At the same time Taysom is looking better than ever, comp % in the high 60's, extending plays, running over DBs for first downs.

Both want to be starters, neither will sign to be a backup. Who would you rather?

If Winston plays to his full potential, he'll lead us to at least 1 SB victory.

If Hill plays to his full potential, he'll be really fun to watch and we'll likely top out at 10-6 and possibly making the playoffs.

Huge difference in the ceilings of these players.

 

[SonOfNOLA]

I think its possible for Winston to become the starting QB, and Taysom remains the all-position player if Taysom can get paid again. The new $10.5 million per year contract extension can open negotiations for the next deal. It’s possible for Taysom to secure another 3 year deal close to that to continue playing multi positions at an elite level for 3 more seasons.

So Taysom can still get paid a lot of money here without putting all hopes into becoming the starting QB, especially if his play as RPO/RB/WR/TE utility player wins us a lot of games this year in increased snaps. I hope he doesn’t insert slightness from not being the QB, when he’s still equally one of the most important players on offense in his current role.

 

[SonOfNOLA]

Jameis and Taysom can co-exist behind center in the future together. Jameis can be the pure passing QB and Taysom can be Jameis‘ backup on paper, while still being on the field just as much as Jameis because Taysom plays so many positions and will have a significant read option package.

Taysom doesn’t have to be “the guy” solely at QB to be the top player on offense like “QBs” traditionally are. Since CSP is talking Taysom up so much, I think revolving the offense around Taysom at all of his positions, including QB, is how this all can work out without Taysom starting at just QB

 

[WhoDat_SB44]

Jameis thought he had a great receiver in Mike Evans, just wait till he’s throwing to Can’t guard Mike in a few years. We just need to find a Chris Godwin cause not sure Emmanuel Sanders will still be with the team and effective come 2021 & 2022 at 34 & 35 years old. We will need to draft us a young stud receiver next year for sure. We will have our tight end in Adam Trautman. He might not be the athlete of OJ Howard, but he will be better than Cameron Brate who was his tight end for most years. He should have a better running back if Kamara is here long term and if not I have faith we will have a better one than he’s had in Tampa. He will without a doubt have a better offensive line protecting him here than in Tampa

 

[BIGRON]

Probably my bias butt is rooting for Taysom just because he has been with the team for roughly 2 or 3 years now. Did more than any players on the team and has been a professional throughout. For my personal hatred, I have an extreme hatred for any criminal activities involving women and children. With Winston's history of rape accusations and the groping incident with the female uber drivers, I am certainly not a fan of this person. His antics on the field and his personality don't bother me but this does. When he was signed I didn't make any comment regarding it. With that being said, I am a Saints fan first and foremost. I can't deny what he did on the field. He has a lot to improve but has proved that he is a capable NFL quarterback. Taysom has yet to prove it to me. So this question is really tough to answer. Feeling aside, Winston has said the right things so far. I will give him props for choosing to take way less money to learn to be a better player with us.

Peyton Manning was accused of the same crimes against women. What's your hatred towards him?

 

[football]

Peyton Manning was accused of the same crimes against women. What's your hatred towards him?

Were he ever in this team? And did Peyton ever been accused of rape or grope any female? The only thing I heard about Manning was he moon someone at Tennessee... Give me some evidence or sources that he did anything close to what Winston did. If not, then keep trying. I hardly ever give my 2 cent of any players not involve with this team.

 

[Saintamaniac]

No your completely wrong here my friend.
the poll is who would I prefer not who would be better!!!

I'll concede that the poll is about preference but for the life of me I can't understand why you would want an inferior talented player that would be worst than a superior talented player that would be better. You did indicate you think Winston would be better.

as a die hard Saints fan who has followed them from the beginning through bad seasons, and really bad seasons and really great seasons I still choose to stand behind the guy that will fight his butt off to win games! Even if the season is a 7-9 year.

How do you know that Winston won 't fight his butt off to win games? I'm a long time Saints fan just like you. I went to game with my dad and had him explain why people had bags on their head. I remember seeing QB's like Dave Wilson, Mike Buck, washed up Stabler, washed up Todd and the many others and I would have gladly traded having a QB with Winston's talents than any of them. You are welcomed to take your 7-9 season. I would much rather a winning season with Winston under center.

but here is a guy that has never played a snap for the Saints! One who really does not fit out locker room personality and a lot of so called fans are ready to throw our proven Saints players under the bus for someone who has a shiny last season.

Every player that the Saints ever drafted had never played a snap for the Saints but the team and most of the fans were glad and excited to have them on the team. Unless you've been in the locker room, you don't know what the personality of it is. You don't know what goes on in there. I know those players want to win and I think they want the player that gives them to best chance to win. I have seen no fans here that are ready to throw TH7 under the bus for anything so I'm not sure where that comes from. But as far as "proven", TH7 has only proven that he can play multiple positions effectively. He has yet to "prove" that he is more than a 1 read and run QB. We shall see.

 

[Loose Cannon]

He already is a high 60% passer. In 2018 he even started 2 preseason games with the first stringers and was a 73.5% passer that preseason. Not sure where the knock on his passing comes from.

 

[Rdanderson91]

If Taysom’s potential is Steve Young and Jameis’ potential is Matt Stafford then it’s Taysom by a mile. But we don’t know their potential

 

[Piper Aydair]

Come one (sic) people. Winston has already thrown for over 5,000 yards and 30+ TD's without a great QB coach. If he can learn from Brees and Payton he would have HOF potential. Especially with great O-line play.

It is a huge leap to think Payton can magically fix any QB's faults. The same people that are adamant that Taysom will never be anyone's QB1 seem to believe Jameis is only one heart to heart with Drew and Payton from a 50% reduction in interceptions.

One of those that voted for Jameis needs to explain why Payton and company can reverse 5 years of bad Quarterbacking in one season of riding a bench (Drew will not get hurt knock on wood). While at the same time they are so absolutely certain that Taysom with 4 years under Drew/Payton and with actual game experience is a lost cause.

Tell me if this sounds familiar ... Then tell me is Jameis changed any in five years as a starter?

WEAKNESSES (and Tampa history)

• Decision making not consistent with his football intelligence. Will throw into impossible windows rather than taking safe throw underneath. Elongated windup and release allows instinctive defenders to close on throws. Was too easily baited into dangerous throws. Struggled with intermediate passing game in 2014, completing 56.8 percent of his passes with FBS-leading 11 interceptions in that range. Still learning nuances of position and how to move and hold defenders with his eyes. Would sleepwalk through first half of many games. Inconsistent footwork and weight transfer caused balls to sail. Prone to emotional outbursts on field. Quality of decision-making drops off substantially when pocket becomes turbulent and he's forced to leave it. Lacks athleticism to extend plays for very long outside of the pocket. Off-the-field character and ability to lead on NFL level are his primary obstacles, according to NFL evaluators. (NFL Combine Evaluation)
• Slow: Former Florida State teammate Ronald Darby correctly summed up Jameis Winston’s official 40-yard dash time of 4.97 seconds Saturday at the Scouting Combine. “Jameis isn’t a track guy,” Darby said.
• Weight and physical condition is like a YoYo
• Sack magnet
• Jameis Winston’s last pass as a Tampa Bay Buccaneer was a pick-six. In overtime in Week 17, a Winston pass on first-and-10 was jumped by Falcons linebacker Deion Jones, who returned it for a walk-off touchdown. The score ended Tampa Bay’s regular season and Winston’s Bucs career in ignominious, appropriate fashion.
• Not Just Interceptions; Winston leads the NFL in interceptions since 2015, but that doesn’t tell the full story of his propensity for turnovers. Over the past five years, he is tied with Kirk Cousins for the lead in fumbles (50) and leads all players in lost fumbles (23).
  Using this simple metric of fumbles and interceptions, let’s see where every quarterback with at least 50 starts ranks since 2015.
  31-40 fumbles + interceptions: Tyrod Taylor
  41-50: Alex Smith
  51-60: Aaron Rodgers
  61-70: Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Case Keenum, Dak Prescott, Ryan Tannehill
  71-80: Marcus Mariota, Jared Goff, Matt Stafford, Joe Flacco, Andy Dalton, Cam Newton
  81-90: Ben Roethlisberger, Carson Wentz, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Russell Wilson
  91-100: Derek Carr, Matt Ryan, Blake Bortles, Eli Manning
  101-110: Kirk Cousins, Philip Rivers
  111-120: None
  121-130: None
  131-140: Jameis Winston

The naive enthusiasm for the fixability of Jameis Winston is as touching as it is unrealistic. Put another way, Jameis has as much chance of overcoming his turnover issues as Taysom does eclipsing Drew's TD record. But miracles happen.

 

[26ISTHEMAN]

It is a huge leap to think Payton can magically fix any QB's faults. The same people that are adamant that Taysom will never be anyone's QB1 seem to believe Jameis is only one heart to heart with Drew and Payton from a 50% reduction in interceptions.

One of those that voted for Jameis needs to explain why Payton and company can reverse 5 years of bad Quarterbacking in one season of riding a bench (Drew will not get hurt knock on wood). While at the same time they are so absolutely certain that Taysom with 4 years under Drew/Payton and with actual game experience is a lost cause.

Tell me if this sounds familiar ... Then tell me is Jameis changed any in five years as a starter?

WEAKNESSES (and Tampa history)

• Decision making not consistent with his football intelligence. Will throw into impossible windows rather than taking safe throw underneath. Elongated windup and release allows instinctive defenders to close on throws. Was too easily baited into dangerous throws. Struggled with intermediate passing game in 2014, completing 56.8 percent of his passes with FBS-leading 11 interceptions in that range. Still learning nuances of position and how to move and hold defenders with his eyes. Would sleepwalk through first half of many games. Inconsistent footwork and weight transfer caused balls to sail. Prone to emotional outbursts on field. Quality of decision-making drops off substantially when pocket becomes turbulent and he's forced to leave it. Lacks athleticism to extend plays for very long outside of the pocket. Off-the-field character and ability to lead on NFL level are his primary obstacles, according to NFL evaluators. (NFL Combine Evaluation)
• Slow: Former Florida State teammate Ronald Darby correctly summed up Jameis Winston’s official 40-yard dash time of 4.97 seconds Saturday at the Scouting Combine. “Jameis isn’t a track guy,” Darby said.
• Weight and physical condition is like a YoYo
• Sack magnet
• Jameis Winston’s last pass as a Tampa Bay Buccaneer was a pick-six. In overtime in Week 17, a Winston pass on first-and-10 was jumped by Falcons linebacker Deion Jones, who returned it for a walk-off touchdown. The score ended Tampa Bay’s regular season and Winston’s Bucs career in ignominious, appropriate fashion.
• Not Just Interceptions; Winston leads the NFL in interceptions since 2015, but that doesn’t don’t tell the full story of his propensity for turnovers. Over the past five years, he is tied with Kirk Cousins for the lead in fumbles (50) and leads all players in lost fumbles (23).
  Using this simple metric of fumbles and interceptions, let’s see where every quarterback with at least 50 starts ranks since 2015.
  31-40 fumbles + interceptions: Tyrod Taylor
  41-50: Alex Smith
  51-60: Aaron Rodgers
  61-70: Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Case Keenum, Dak Prescott, Ryan Tannehill
  71-80: Marcus Mariota, Jared Goff, Matt Stafford, Joe Flacco, Andy Dalton, Cam Newton
  81-90: Ben Roethlisberger, Carson Wentz, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Russell Wilson
  91-100: Derek Carr, Matt Ryan, Blake Bortles, Eli Manning
  101-110: Kirk Cousins, Philip Rivers
  111-120: None
  121-130: None
  131-140: Jameis Winston

The naive enthusiasm for the fixability of Jameis Winston is as touching as it is unrealistic. Put another way, Jameis has as much chance of overcoming his turnover issues as Taysom does eclipsing Drews TD record. But miracles happen.

Great post. Some just want to believe that Payton will magically fix years of bad play by Winston but won’t admit that he could make Taysom into a winning QB. Winston is 28-42 as a starter and has one winning season under his belt, 9-7 in 2016. He’s 13-27 in the last three years and turns the ball over more than any player in football. But despite 5 years of evidence to the contrary, he’s somehow gonna win multiple Super Bowls in NO on his way to the HOF.

Will Taysom be successful as a starting QB? No one knows, but it is indisputable that he has excelled at everything he’s been asked to do, while Winston has compiled a dismal record as a starter. Add the character factor and it’s a no brainer who I want to lead this team after Drew retires.

 

[Saint Kamara]

He already is a high 60% passer. In 2018 he even started 2 preseason games with the first stringers and was a 73.5% passer that preseason. Not sure where the knock on his passing comes from.

Yikes, you surely can't be hanging your hat on preseason stats from a very limited supply of passes?

 

[Loose Cannon]

It is a huge leap to think Payton can magically fix any QB's faults. The same people that are adamant that Taysom will never be anyone's QB1 seem to believe Jameis is only one heart to heart with Drew and Payton from a 50% reduction in interceptions.

One of those that voted for Jameis needs to explain why Payton and company can reverse 5 years of bad Quarterbacking in one season of riding a bench (Drew will not get hurt knock on wood). While at the same time they are so absolutely certain that Taysom with 4 years under Drew/Payton and with actual game experience is a lost cause.

Tell me if this sounds familiar ... Then tell me is Jameis changed any in five years as a starter?

WEAKNESSES (and Tampa history)

• Decision making not consistent with his football intelligence. Will throw into impossible windows rather than taking safe throw underneath. Elongated windup and release allows instinctive defenders to close on throws. Was too easily baited into dangerous throws. Struggled with intermediate passing game in 2014, completing 56.8 percent of his passes with FBS-leading 11 interceptions in that range. Still learning nuances of position and how to move and hold defenders with his eyes. Would sleepwalk through first half of many games. Inconsistent footwork and weight transfer caused balls to sail. Prone to emotional outbursts on field. Quality of decision-making drops off substantially when pocket becomes turbulent and he's forced to leave it. Lacks athleticism to extend plays for very long outside of the pocket. Off-the-field character and ability to lead on NFL level are his primary obstacles, according to NFL evaluators. (NFL Combine Evaluation)
• Slow: Former Florida State teammate Ronald Darby correctly summed up Jameis Winston’s official 40-yard dash time of 4.97 seconds Saturday at the Scouting Combine. “Jameis isn’t a track guy,” Darby said.
• Weight and physical condition is like a YoYo
• Sack magnet
• Jameis Winston’s last pass as a Tampa Bay Buccaneer was a pick-six. In overtime in Week 17, a Winston pass on first-and-10 was jumped by Falcons linebacker Deion Jones, who returned it for a walk-off touchdown. The score ended Tampa Bay’s regular season and Winston’s Bucs career in ignominious, appropriate fashion.
• Not Just Interceptions; Winston leads the NFL in interceptions since 2015, but that doesn’t tell the full story of his propensity for turnovers. Over the past five years, he is tied with Kirk Cousins for the lead in fumbles (50) and leads all players in lost fumbles (23).
  Using this simple metric of fumbles and interceptions, let’s see where every quarterback with at least 50 starts ranks since 2015.
  31-40 fumbles + interceptions: Tyrod Taylor
  41-50: Alex Smith
  51-60: Aaron Rodgers
  61-70: Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Case Keenum, Dak Prescott, Ryan Tannehill
  71-80: Marcus Mariota, Jared Goff, Matt Stafford, Joe Flacco, Andy Dalton, Cam Newton
  81-90: Ben Roethlisberger, Carson Wentz, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Russell Wilson
  91-100: Derek Carr, Matt Ryan, Blake Bortles, Eli Manning
  101-110: Kirk Cousins, Philip Rivers
  111-120: None
  121-130: None
  131-140: Jameis Winston

The naive enthusiasm for the fixability of Jameis Winston is as touching as it is unrealistic. Put another way, Jameis has as much chance of overcoming his turnover issues as Taysom does eclipsing Drew's TD record. But miracles happen.

And yet you believe that he can make a franchise QB out of a guy who has never in his life shown the ability to be an accurate passer, nor has demonstrated the football IQ to read a defense properly.

 

[Piper Aydair]

Yikes, you surely can't be hanging your hat on preseason stats from a very limited supply of passes?

I'm not hanging any hat.

And yet you believe that he can make a franchise QB out of a guy who has never in his life shown the ability to be an accurate passer, nor has demonstrated the football IQ to read a defense properly.

I don't believe anything of the sort. I have no real football experience just a fan. They pay Payton to make that call. Can I ask you a serious question? You post a lot of absolute comments. What is your football background that qualifies you to say Payton is wrong? Please don't respond that Payton is just trying to hoodwink a team into taking Taysom off our hands. That tall tale went down in flames when they gave him $21 Million to hang around.

Can you also explain how an Inaccurate passer completes more than 70 percent of his passes behind a third string front line to receivers he only met a few days ago? Is there something about preseason that makes a passer more accurate than he naturally is? Are you sure your bias isn't coming from some other place.

Taysom may never be a super passing QB but in combination with his running ability he may still be a great QB.

 

[Piper Aydair]

Yikes, you surely can't be hanging your hat on preseason stats from a very limited supply of passes?

I don't get your point. Why is his preseason completion rate of over 70% somehow a bad showing? Loose cannon just called him an inaccurate passer. I don't get it. What is inaccurate about 70% or does preseason make him more accurate than he inherently is?