Wrong-Fit Players for 3-4 (1 Viewer)

[CitySaint]

He's big but he's anything but strong. This has to be one of the biggest misconceptions on this board.

If he was so big and strong why do we rank 28th at defending runs to his side, yet 2nd on defending runs to Jordan's side?

I doubt Smith was significantly to blame for the horrible run defense. He did his job more often than anyone on that side.

 

[JackDiesel]

Was he 28th out of at least 64 defensive ends? Do you have a link for this? I'd like to read more about it.

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2012 DEFENSIVE LINES

It doesn't rank him but ranks how successful teams are depending on which direction they run against our defense. We were 28th in the NFL at runs behind the offenses left tackle. If he was as big and strong as some people make him out to be he'd be stalemating the left tackle and teams wouldn't be nearly as successful as they were.

 

[CitySaint]

The biggest things I've noticed is Hicks is a question mark as a 3-4 nose. 3-4 nose and 4-3 nose are not the same, i do like him at end but that seems more unlikely. The Galette transition. Everything hinges on this being successfuland I'm not even sure his pass rush will be there. The few times we have run with 3 lineman and 4 backers Tez was always the rush backer not Galette.

 

[insidejob]

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2012 DEFENSIVE LINES

It doesn't rank him but ranks how successful teams are depending on which direction they run against our defense. We were 28th in the NFL at runs behind the offenses left tackle. If he was as big and strong as some people make him out to be he'd be stalemating the left tackle and teams wouldn't be nearly as successful as they were.

Thanks for the link.

I also wonder if this has some to do with the play of Ellis lined up next to him as opposed to more of a space eater lined up next to Jordan on the strong side. Not excusing it or taking credit away from Jordan (who had a monster year) and I hope that no matter what, moving forward, that the numbers don't look like this running to the weak side.

 

[ASaintFerLife]

I follow a general rule of posting only in threads in which I am interested. I try not to stop in to tell people I don't care about their topic. Obnoxious first graders do that. I know, we have one.

Well said, people have a right to create/reply to a thread and there opinions.

 

[JackDiesel]

Thanks for the link.

I also wonder if this has some to do with the play of Ellis lined up next to him as opposed to more of a space eater lined up next to Jordan on the strong side. Not excusing it or taking credit away from Jordan (who had a monster year) and I hope that no matter what, moving forward, that the numbers don't look like this running to the weak side.

No problem.

Doesn't Bunkley or Hicks line up to Smith while Ellis or Johnson (our 3-techs) lined up next to Jordan? I know our depth charts show it differently but doesn't the NT line up on the weak side of the formation while the 3-tech lines up on the strong side? I guess it depends on if we are an over or under formation, I think we used more under which would put our 3-tech next to Smith but played with the same responsibilities of our NT.

Regardless, 2nd to 28th is a mammoth difference. I can see our tackles playing into but maybe only a few spots.

 

[P'cola WhoDat]

I by no means am an expert or don't even to claim to be knowledgable on the matter but isn't 3-4 just a base formation of lineman and linebackers? Wouldn't we have different personnel in on different situations? Won't there be times when we will have 5 defensive backs, 2 down lineman, 4 lineman, 5 in the box etc? I don't know how we can know who will be playing, cut or demoted based on just knowing what our base scheme will be. Obviously we will lose people on cap situation but that's about all we know.

 

[Guitarzan]

Or it may have more to do with the fact that 80% of the threads on the front page are about our defense, Vilma and Smith, the draft (and therefore also about our defense) and who will or won't fit into the new system.

Agreed... I think a good case could be made that almost every individual thread on page one and two could be condensed into two threads :the draft and the defense

 

[bearze34]

He's big but he's anything but strong. This has to be one of the biggest misconceptions on this board.

If he was so big and strong why do we rank 28th at defending runs to his side, yet 2nd on defending runs to Jordan's side?

Umm, it says 28th to the right tackle, 27th on the left tackle. That means they were both very bad at securing the edge. Let's not glorify our defense against the run in any way. Both ends were putrid.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2

 

[jboydrive]

Umm, it says 28th to the right tackle, 27th on the left tackle. That means they were both very bad at securing the edge. Let's not glorify our defense against the run in any way. Both ends were putrid.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2

nah, 2nd right tackle. 27th right end. Read it again.

 

[CantonLegend]

I doubt Smith was significantly to blame for the horrible run defense. He did his job more often than anyone on that side.

Those numbers aren't indicative of will smiths performance this year in the least

Cutbacks and options killed us to his side...both of which are specifically designed to catch aggressive DEs off guard. Because of spags scheme, the DEs had to be aggressive...

But let's not also forget there were several times, take Kansas City for example, where teams busted off that side when will smith wasn't even playing end

There's more that goes into that than just blaming smith

 

[bclemms]

Those numbers aren't indicative of will smiths performance this year in the least

Cutbacks and options killed us to his side...both of which are specifically designed to catch aggressive DEs off guard. Because of spags scheme, the DEs had to be aggressive...

But let's not also forget there were several times, take Kansas City for example, where teams busted off that side when will smith wasn't even playing end

There's more that goes into that than just blaming smith

So Will Smith is good against the run but if he wasn't good against the run it is because teams were specifically attacking him because he is an aggressive DE but he didn't have many sacks this season because he was asked to play contain and didn't wildly rush upfield but if he was aggressive it was because the same scheme that asked him to play contain also asked him to be aggressive?

Dude, Will Smith sucked last season. He was aweful in every phase of the game and was outplayed all season by his backup who made about 20 times less money. You can continue making these circular excuses but it is painfully obvious to everyone except you.

 

[JackDiesel]

So Will Smith is good against the run but if he wasn't good against the run it is because teams were specifically attacking him because he is an aggressive DE but he didn't have many sacks this season because he was asked to play contain and didn't wildly rush upfield but if he was aggressive it was because the same scheme that asked him to play contain also asked him to be aggressive?

Dude, Will Smith sucked last season. He was aweful in every phase of the game and was outplayed all season by his backup who made about 20 times less money. You can continue making these circular excuses but it is painfully obvious to everyone except you.

 

[CitySaint]

So Will Smith is good against the run but if he wasn't good against the run it is because teams were specifically attacking him because he is an aggressive DE but he didn't have many sacks this season because he was asked to play contain and didn't wildly rush upfield but if he was aggressive it was because the same scheme that asked him to play contain also asked him to be aggressive?

Dude, Will Smith sucked last season. He was aweful in every phase of the game and was outplayed all season by his backup who made about 20 times less money. You can continue making these circular excuses but it is painfully obvious to everyone except you.

In one phase he was outplayed by a backup and then he couldn't even do that consistently enough to argue starting.

 

[CantonLegend]

So Will Smith is good against the run but if he wasn't good against the run it is because teams were specifically attacking him because he is an aggressive DE but he didn't have many sacks this season because he was asked to play contain and didn't wildly rush upfield but if he was aggressive it was because the same scheme that asked him to play contain also asked him to be aggressive?

Dude, Will Smith sucked last season. He was aweful in every phase of the game and was outplayed all season by his backup who made about 20 times less money. You can continue making these circular excuses but it is painfully obvious to everyone except you.

Will smith moved inside on passing downs...not every passing down but many of them...enough that you should've noticed it happening several times a game

I love it...will smith sucks every season according to lots of ppl like you and jackdiesel....but for whatever reason you can't come up with a reasonable explanation as to why he still started and played more than the other guys

So you and jackdiesel said he sucked...so what

Who ru? Nobody. The people that matter disagree with your analysis