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v12whodat

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This is clearly a catch fumble. I went back to the 2018 seasons game against the Giants, and PJ Williams caused a fumble the exact same way. Wow ,just wow. The difference is, in the game vs the Giants the refs called this a catch fumble. The NFL need full time refs.
 

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rbhogan

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Didn’t they rule that play down the sideline with Sims, I think it was, incomplete even after review? He took like 3 steps, fell, then didn’t survive the ground. Surviving the ground shouldn’t matter at that point 5 feet out of bounds. I felt the Bears got hosed on that one. If I remember correctly and that was ruled incomplete, then I can see why they ruled the catch/fumble incomplete. But I thought they both were catches.
that was ruled a catch (and it should have been)
 

Rdanderson91

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Didn’t they rule that play down the sideline with Sims, I think it was, incomplete even after review? He took like 3 steps, fell, then didn’t survive the ground. Surviving the ground shouldn’t matter at that point 5 feet out of bounds. I felt the Bears got hosed on that one. If I remember correctly and that was ruled incomplete, then I can see why they ruled the catch/fumble incomplete. But I thought they both were catches.
No it was ruled complete
 

Kegger

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I thought so too. So I brought up the game paused it and checked the perspectives. Unfortunately, the pylon cam angles off the goal line so it gives you perspective. The two other shots had a completely vertical goal line so it was a good angle and the ball was short.
Is it really that hard to get a chip in the ball? Soccer has had it for years
 

UFCSaint

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Agree on both.

Something seemed off on those sideline angles. The officials called it a TD immediately and the pylon cam supported that.

But yeah, I immediately knew that was an incomplete pass. Never had control even when he started what could’ve been considered a “football move.”
When he turned he was practically palming the ball which to me is a 'football move.' If he had turned over the goal line, gotten hit and lost it...they would've called it a TD. I could see it getting called either way but it looked like a catch to me.
 

UFCSaint

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My biggest gripe about the play is the refs didn't let it play out, so they obviously haven't learned anything from the last few year. It should've been called a TD then reversed, they originally called it that way then backed off. Had it turned out to be a fumble we would not have been given the defensive TD.

I thought they did let that play run out? I didn't hear a whistle and the one ref that was near the play kinda ran with it from what I remember.
 

LifeForceDave

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I thought they did let that play run out? I didn't hear a whistle and the one ref that was near the play kinda ran with it from what I remember.
yeah, it was a mess and i could be wrong, but if we ended up challenging it then it had to be ruled the other way right?
 

UFCSaint

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yeah, it was a mess and i could be wrong, but if we ended up challenging it then it had to be ruled the other way right?
Scoring plays are automatically reviewed so I don't think we had the option to review it. Even if we did have the option there is no way they would've overturned their own call on the field. We saw proof of that last year.
 

sfidc3

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Ball is secure in both hands (not moving) and he is pivoting upfield (football move)

Now I’ve said before that there isn’t enough video evidence to overturn whichever the call was on the field - but on the field it should have stayed a catch and fumble
I agree completely, overall the refs were really good in the game but they missed this one. I mean why didn't they keep the call on the field and then review it?
 

LifeForceDave

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Scoring plays are automatically reviewed so I don't think we had the option to review it. Even if we did have the option there is no way they would've overturned their own call on the field. We saw proof of that last year.
right, but what i thought happened was they called it down and since it wasn't a scoring playing after their call we threw the challenge flag to try to get the fumble. meaning if they had overturned it we wouldve gotten it at that spot instead of the TD.

kind of like the rams play last year when they didn't let it play through and we got hosed. this one was a lot closer than last year but regardless, my original line of thought was they shouldve let it play through and called it a scoring play so that we wouldnt have had to challenge it and it wouldve been reviewed automatically.
 

GTSaint

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Scoring plays are automatically reviewed so I don't think we had the option to review it. Even if we did have the option there is no way they would've overturned their own call on the field. We saw proof of that last year.
The refs did a good job letting it play out. No whistles until after the TD, but then the decided on the field that it was not a catch, not a turnover, not a TD. So since this was not a turnover or score, no automatic review. Saints had to challenge. Due to ratings, I mean "inconclusive video evidence", the call on the field on incomplete stood.

Really, I could see that call go either way. I figured they would not overturn the call on the field. But I think it was enough of a football move to call it a fumble.
 

UFCSaint

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right, but what i thought happened was they called it down and since it wasn't a scoring playing after their call we threw the challenge flag to try to get the fumble. meaning if they had overturned it we wouldve gotten it at that spot instead of the TD.

kind of like the rams play last year when they didn't let it play through and we got hosed. this one was a lot closer than last year but regardless, my original line of thought was they shouldve let it play through and called it a scoring play so that we wouldnt have had to challenge it and it wouldve been reviewed automatically.
That's right. Forgot the overturned their own call forcing us to challenge.
 

play action

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Your tilting
The ovehead angle is almost impossible to use. You can't know how far back from the view it is or if it's directly over the line. But there are angles you can use or not use from the sideline.

This sideline view has an almost perfect angle:1.png

The pylon view has a perspective to it:
3.png
Your pylon cam line is tilted like a bad bucs first down spot. He is touching the line there, not crossing,doesnt have to for the td ruling however. Made drew look dumb. The bear bettors were given new life. Other than that it's shrug the shoulders type stuff. Drews ribs getting better at least. The fumble could have gone either way so that means......what it usually means.
 
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Your tilting

Your pylon cam line is tilted like a bad bucs first down spot. He is touching the line there, not crossing,doesnt have to for the td ruling however. Made drew look dumb. The bear bettors were given new life. Other than that it's shrug the shoulders type stuff. Drews ribs getting better at least. The fumble could have gone either way so that means......what it usually means.
Almost impossible to make a call on the pylon cam because of the perspective. You would have to drop a line at where he crosses and that's hard to prove.

The first picture is definitive though. It's the perfect angle. If it was offset the goal line would skew like the yard lines to the left do.

I thought he had it too, I was fighting with my buddy saying he had it. That's why I brought up the still shoots to see. I found out I was wrong and admitted so the next day. I'm just showing it to everyone so we can all know.
 

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