You're not going to believe what a Carolina Panther fan said... (1 Viewer)

1st
Im talking about making it to the playoffs not playoff games won. Their is NO reason why this team should have not made the playoffs not even a 6 seed. Manning and Warner have both played in multiple post seasons im not just speaking of their SuperBowl run.

Warner has made the playoffs with a great defense (99 Rams, 01 Rams) and due to a horrible division (08 Cards). Manning has made the playoffs with average-to-good defenses that were 17th, 15th, 7th, 20th, 19th, 2nd, 23rd, 1st, and 7th in PPG allowed. Since 2002, Indy's defense has had 27, 30, 36, 29, 25, 37, and 26 takeaways. To compare, our defense has been 25th and 26th in PPG allowed the past 2 seasons and had 23 and 22 takeaways. The worst Indy defense to make the playoffs with Peyton (05 Colts) is better than our last 2 defenses. They force turnovers so even if they allow points, they help the offense. The only way our defense has helped the offense in 2 years is getting off the field quickly due to a score.


2nd
You gave props to the Defense out of 8 int's they only allowed 3 points!!! That is really good that goes to show you yes they had their problems but as I have stated in other threads Sean Payton's coaching style these last 2 years has had it's negative effect on that unit.

The majority of those turnovers were downfield. They were essentially punts. Yay, the defense didn't allow an offense to go 70 yards on them! Give 'em a cookie!


Tampa Game was coached horribly. (Brees played suspect) Defense did not play Horrible
We should have won that game.

The Atlanta Game Brees played Bad. (Brown got Blasted)

The Chicago game is a blowout if the Defense and Pierre Thomas don't keep it close.
(Brees played suspect)...... We should have won that game.

I'll give you Tampa. The Atlanta game was due to Abraham dominating Brown and allowing 17 points in the 1st half. The defense was good in spurts against Chicago, but their offense was horrible last year. Playing well against their offense is hardly deserving of praise. And we still got burnt twice by Hester. PT didn't do ANYTHING against Chicago besides that 1 42-yard run. Our run game was very poor against Chicago throughout the game. Chicago also scored 21 points in the 1st half.

Bottom line, you're blaming Brees for having bad games, but the defense still allowed a ton of points in each of them, especially early. If we are down 14 points early, we're in trouble.
 
What is Amazing is the convenient understanding some of us have today now about how a QB cannot do it all. Jake does not win those games by himself his defense and overall team design has put him in the NFC Championship game and on the verge of a Superbowl. I agree with that premise and have always had that opinion by the way.

But oh how things change, in 04 when many folk on this site and others said the exact same thing it was totally slammed. Delhomme was better than Brooks and oh look at what he has done in Carolina lol. We should have kept Jake etc

Now what 4-5 years later his team still making the playoffs mind you, and in the last 3 years they have a 5-1 record against the Saints and he Sucks now. LOL!!!!

Meanwhile our Defense was bad then and still is Bad Now. Only thing that has changed is convenient understanding.

Jake has always sucked and I have said so since Day 1. Brooks wasn't the problem. The defense has been horrible since halfway through 2001. Jake has 2 throws: 1) Super Deluxe Rainbow Lob to Smith, 2) Interception. That's it, that's the list! His job in Carolina has always been to hand it off to the RB and let the RB and defense win the game. When he has to carry the team, they suck.
 
Winning games is all that matters. "Getting the Job Done" as ESPN's Mark Jackson would say. Peyton Manning and Kurt Warner both led teams to playoff runs without a "Good Defense". While I can agree that you need in most cases a complete team effort to win in the playoffs, There is no way this team should have missed the playoffs these last 2 years even with a "bad defense." bad coaching and bad execution cost us.

Which playoff runs by Manning and Warner are you citing? Provide the years, and then let's look at how those defenses performed during those seasons, and most importantly, during those postseasons...
 
Warner has made the playoffs with a great defense (99 Rams, 01 Rams) and due to a horrible division (08 Cards). Manning has made the playoffs with average-to-good defenses that were 17th, 15th, 7th, 20th, 19th, 2nd, 23rd, 1st, and 7th in PPG allowed. Since 2002, Indy's defense has had 27, 30, 36, 29, 25, 37, and 26 takeaways. To compare, our defense has been 25th and 26th in PPG allowed the past 2 seasons and had 23 and 22 takeaways. The worst Indy defense to make the playoffs with Peyton (05 Colts) is better than our last 2 defenses. They force turnovers so even if they allow points, they help the offense. The only way our defense has helped the offense in 2 years is getting off the field quickly due to a score.




The majority of those turnovers were downfield. They were essentially punts. Yay, the defense didn't allow an offense to go 70 yards on them! Give 'em a cookie!




I'll give you Tampa. The Atlanta game was due to Abraham dominating Brown and allowing 17 points in the 1st half. The defense was good in spurts against Chicago, but their offense was horrible last year. Playing well against their offense is hardly deserving of praise. And we still got burnt twice by Hester. PT didn't do ANYTHING against Chicago besides that 1 42-yard run. Our run game was very poor against Chicago throughout the game. Chicago also scored 21 points in the 1st half.

Bottom line, you're blaming Brees for having bad games, but the defense still allowed a ton of points in each of them, especially early. If we are down 14 points early, we're in trouble.

We can try and make the D rankings mean whatever we want. Manning and Warner carried their teams according to the hype and MVP awards they won at the time of their playoffs runs and the only question for both teams was if the D was going to step it up for them. Defense in the Playoffs is needed to win the big game I am 100% behind that but you can find a easy 5-6 games in the last 2 years where the Saints even with all their "Known" problems should have won the game. I want balance on everyside of the ball, i am in no way throwing everything on anyone person or side of the ball.

That again is the point people come on here and make exuses for their team favorites everyone is guilty of it. It's Bush for me, for others it's 26 for many it's Brees but when I look at the Logo and the name and the history behind me being a fan of this team it has always been bigger than any one player. When they move on and they all do, IM STILL A SAINTS FAN. So when folk break down Brees or Bush or the Defense for that matter their are 2 sets of glasses you can view the critque from:

Fan crazied I Love Brees is the Best Go Saints!!!! WE ARE NEW ORLREANS!!!!!!

Or I Love my team and want them to improve the guy is a good QB but he can improve in these areas.

Both are cool but do understand one set of glasses show reality much clearer than the other.
 
Jake has always sucked and I have said so since Day 1. Brooks wasn't the problem. The defense has been horrible since halfway through 2001. Jake has 2 throws: 1) Super Deluxe Rainbow Lob to Smith, 2) Interception. That's it, that's the list! His job in Carolina has always been to hand it off to the RB and let the RB and defense win the game. When he has to carry the team, they suck.

My Man!!! I like the Super deluxe Rainbow LoL Im with ya.
 
We can try and make the D rankings mean whatever we want. Manning and Warner carried their teams according to the hype and MVP awards they won at the time of their playoffs runs and the only question for both teams was if the D was going to step it up for them. Defense in the Playoffs is needed to win the big game I am 100% behind that but you can find a easy 5-6 games in the last 2 years where the Saints even with all their "Known" problems should have won the game. I want balance on everyside of the ball, i am in no way throwing everything on anyone person or side of the ball.

"Make them mean whatever we want"? Dude, it's POINTS ALLOWED PER GAME and TAKEAWAYS. It's not some obscure stats I made up. The two players you cited have had success when their defenses were better than what we had in 2007 and 2008. Manning missed the playoffs in 2001 and surprise, their defense was beyond horrible.


That again is the point people come on here and make exuses for their team favorites everyone is guilty of it. It's Bush for me, for others it's 26 for many it's Brees but when I look at the Logo and the name and the history behind me being a fan of this team it has always been bigger than any one player. When they move on and they all do, IM STILL A SAINTS FAN. So when folk break down Brees or Bush or the Defense for that matter their are 2 sets of glasses you can view the critque from:

Fan crazied I Love Brees is the Best Go Saints!!!! WE ARE NEW ORLREANS!!!!!!

Or I Love my team and want them to improve the guy is a good QB but he can improve in these areas.

Both are cool but do understand one set of glasses show reality much clearer than the other.

I'm fine with criticizing Brees, but to say the defense wasn't a problem when they allowed 23, 20, and 27 points is ludicrous. If we lose 7-14 and Brees throws 2-3 (non-WR tipped) INTs, I'll back you up in blaming Brees. But not when the defense allows above the league average in points and we call it "good enough". That ISN'T good enough.
 
"Make them mean whatever we want"? Dude, it's POINTS ALLOWED PER GAME and TAKEAWAYS. It's not some obscure stats I made up. The two players you cited have had success when their defenses were better than what we had in 2007 and 2008. Manning missed the playoffs in 2001 and surprise, their defense was beyond horrible.




I'm fine with criticizing Brees, but to say the defense wasn't a problem when they allowed 23, 20, and 27 points is ludicrous. If we lose 7-14 and Brees throws 2-3 (non-WR tipped) INTs, I'll back you up in blaming Brees. But not when the defense allows above the league average in points and we call it "good enough". That ISN'T good enough.

No one said the Defense was innocient. It goes back to my fundmental arguement of coaching style. On all those teams Addai, Faulk, James, they ran the ball. Bad coaching is bad coaching and it effects all sides of the ball. The Defensive Woes are connected to Sean Payton's coaching style and that's why this team did not make the playoffs. Hopefully GW and He can fix that this year.

Getting to the playoffs is the focus Just getting there. Not yet talking about winning in the playoffs just making the playoffs. The key was better Coaching for the Rams and Colts. Not necessarily a better QB speaking of Manning and Warner because in his zone Brees can go at it with anyone However it is about having a better understanding of how to coach to your stronger hand If you don't have balance. It is the reason why Andy Reid and the Eagles are their year in and year out it's Coaching. Manning and Warner never played on perfect teams but they have played on well coached teams. Well coached teams sometimes surprise you even when their personnel does not seem to look like much they make it work ie the New England Patriots and the 06 New Orleans Saints.

I think Brees is a bad boy, I think as much good as Payton has done with him he has also put him in some bad spots.
 
You keep blaming the coaches and Brees and anyone but the piss-poor defense. Coaching style isn't why our defense stunk. We had a TOP above 30:00 all 3 years under Payton so we aren't hampering the defense with our offense. Our defense just stinks.
 
I want to win..

I want the QB with the better winning %..

I WANT REX GROSSMAN!


on a side note, I've heard from another fan, that Grossman said, that he didn't even aim when he passed, he just threw the ball up and trusted his receivers to find it :covri::jpshakehead:
 
When you have a front office(Carolina); that gave a QB 42.5 million dollars and he is coming off a game in which he threw five or six interceptions that says something about your Organization in a sense that they have no clue as to what they are doing!
 
you must realize the guy Fuzz who is championing Phillip Rivers is a Panther fan out in San Diego, so that is where he draws that concclusion from. it's funny no one challenged him on that one. i do agree that Rivers is a good QB, but not better than Brees. as far as Warner?? OMG did he see what Warner looked like in NY when he didn't have 2 Talented WR and a decent RB around him? i believe he lost his job in 6 games. while i don't deny Warner is a tough guy and proven leader with uncanny accuracy, he's always had extreme talent in places he's won. and Rothesilbereger has benefited from one of the most Dominant Defenses this Decade. he did show some ability in the Super Bowl, but that was more blind luck than anything. anybody remember his first Super Bowl? his passer rating was in 40. not exactly someone i'd want running my team :hihi:
 
We can try and make the D rankings mean whatever we want. Manning and Warner carried their teams according to the hype and MVP awards they won at the time of their playoffs runs and the only question for both teams was if the D was going to step it up for them. Defense in the Playoffs is needed to win the big game I am 100% behind that but you can find a easy 5-6 games in the last 2 years where the Saints even with all their "Known" problems should have won the game. I want balance on everyside of the ball, i am in no way throwing everything on anyone person or side of the ball.

That again is the point people come on here and make exuses for their team favorites everyone is guilty of it. It's Bush for me, for others it's 26 for many it's Brees but when I look at the Logo and the name and the history behind me being a fan of this team it has always been bigger than any one player. When they move on and they all do, IM STILL A SAINTS FAN. So when folk break down Brees or Bush or the Defense for that matter their are 2 sets of glasses you can view the critque from:

Fan crazied I Love Brees is the Best Go Saints!!!! WE ARE NEW ORLREANS!!!!!!

Or I Love my team and want them to improve the guy is a good QB but he can improve in these areas.

Both are cool but do understand one set of glasses show reality much clearer than the other.

Excellent post.
 

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