Saints Offseason Plan

[truck man]

Last year, Moore was tendered for a 2nd rounder, as a RFA.....nobody wanted to give up a 2nd rd pick for him, and I remember the things they said about Moore....he isn't really that good, he's a system guy, and he looks much better than he really is, b/c of the Payton's system....that was last year, after a 100yds season...

What's his worth now??....after he was dogged with injuries the whole season? I have doubts that teams are seriously considering giving up a 3 rd pick for him.....and I seriously doubt, the Saints will give him away for a 4th rounder either....

i think his worth was proven by those teams who chose not to go after him and instead sign guys like David Tyree, Hank Baskett, Nate Washington, Bobby Wade and got nothing from them. if you could get a guy who at one time scored 10 TD's on a team that's worth a 3rd Round or 4th Round pick.

 

[darkhornet]

The idea that we can "frontload" deals because of the uncapped year is a myth. There are rules in place to stop this from happening.

You could have a contract that looked something like: $20M first year, $10M second, $5M the third, right?

 

[ScottRay504]

The Patriots should trade us for Moore as a replacement/sub for Wes Welker.

 

[hammernnails]

Hey Truckman,

I guess that tells us that they are more confidant in Bushrod continuing to grow and develop. Strief is the shocker for me. I thought surely they would love to keep him as depth for both LT and more importantly RT. That move would be surprising. Thanks man, good info as always.

I like Strief too... I hope they can find a way to keep him... that Oline has been extremely impressive for several years and he has been a part of that... we know how long it takes for an Oline to "gel" .. I would like to see him stay but I also realize that this is a business and I have complete and total faith in our scouting dept and our current management..

 

[BoNcHiE]

remeber last year he signed a 2nd Round tender. if a team would give us 3 or 4 for him. we'd jump at it.

But we were free to trade him for less then his tender.

I guess the questions are, did anyone offer us a 3rd or 4th last year and did we turn it down, and have we now reduced Moore's value enough this offseason to be willing to get rid of him for that.

 

[truck man]

But we were free to trade him for less then his tender.

I guess the questions are, did anyone offer us a 3rd or 4th last year and did we turn it down, and have we now reduced Moore's value enough this offseason to be willing to get rid of him for that.

i know last year they wanted a 2nd or a 3rd and a later pick. my guess is that didn't obsolve. but after a year in which Devery and Meachem both proved capable of carrying the team in stretches. i'd say his value is a little less now.

 

[Scotlandsaint]

Teams are going to be more willing to trade picks for restricted free agents this year due to the fact that there is a lack of quality unrestricted players.

 

[livefromDC]

I thought restriction's only applied to the salary/year. Can't teams "frontload" by giving signing bonuses without penalty for this year?

I think this possible too. Signing bonuses don't have to be split over the life of the contract (saying the life of the contract is a misnomer as well since you can only split it over the next 5 years). Splitting the signing bonus over several years made it more cap friendly. The player's salary cant be exorbitant from one year to the next. I think this is what would force the "front loaded contract" issue.

 

[BoNcHiE]

i just go by what they tell me and they feel Bushrod is a better Run Blocker than Brown and will only get better. weren't you one of the ones saying we needed to upgrade Goodwin last Offseason? i said the Staff and FO were happy with how he played all he did was go out this year and make a Pro Bowl and not give up a Sack all year. but hey, i'm just saying....

And weren't you saying that the staff liked Anthony Waters overs Evans and Mitchell and that we would sign Brooks by "this afternoon" at one point? I'm just saying...

We've all been wrong.

Profootballfocus actually backs up how good Goodwin played this year and in 2008, which would explain the staff being high on him: http://profootballfocus.com/by_posi...e=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1

They don't tell such a bright story about Bushrod and the numbers are what they are. I'm not questioning your sources as they are usually right, but I don't know if I buy them on this one issue.

 

[BoNcHiE]

I think this possible too. Signing bonuses don't have to be split over the life of the contract (saying the life of the contract is a misnomer as well since you can only split it over the next 5 years). Splitting the signing bonus over several years made it more cap friendly. The player's salary cant be exorbitant from one year to the next. I think this is what would force the "front loaded contract" issue.

Not possible past a certain level. This rule was put in place specifically to stop teams with a ton of money (and not subject to the final 4 rule) from going out and buying up everyone with huge signing bonuses.

Can’t a team just front-load a contract to take advantage of the uncapped year?
No, this would be difficult to do. That is because, according to the CBA, any salary decrease of greater than 50% from one year to the next becomes signing bonus and thus is spread out over the life of the deal. For example, if the Patriots signed Vince Wilfork to a deal with a $20M salary in 2010 (uncapped) and a $4M salary in 2011 (capped), then that is a decrease of more than 50% ($10M), that $16M difference would become signing bonus and pro-rated over the life of the deal; if it was a four-year deal, then it would count as $4M/year, so the 2010 cap charge would reduce to $8M ($20M - $16M + $4M), and the 2011-2013 charges would increase by $4M.

 

[Eman5805]

I don't see any problem with Bushrod. He did EXACTLY what you want a back up LT to do. He wasn't a total liability, held his ground for the most part, and got lots of experience. He's the perfect backup at LT, imo. If he were any better, he'd be the starter. I'd hate to see Streif go, but he's versatile and teams like that. If he can net us an equally versatile player on the defensive side of the ball, then let's move 'em.

 

[Slidell Mike]

i think Goodwin is much better than Faine and he's proved it the past 2 years.

Well, remember that Faine was paid like he was the best center in football. Goodwin is no slouch, but I think, at the time, Faine was seen as a better pass protector than Goodwin and Goodwin might have had the edge on Faine as a run blocker. Goodwin has certainly improved his pass blocking since then, but Faine is still a quality center - it's just that his team sucks...

Not really trying to argue the point either way. Bottom line, I think the Saints strategy in managing the cap (obviously doesn't apply this year) has been to always develop quality OL depth, so the team is not held hostage to paying exorbitant $$$ to OL when they hit free agency. I don't think they'll pay Brown big money on a new contract although they might keep him as a RFA under tender if they don't get a good enough trade offer.

Again, the exception to that case, I think, will be Jahri Evans. He has proven his worth to be a top tier guard in this league with the potential to play at a very high level for many years to come.

 

[PatronSaintJason]

Not possible past a certain level. This rule was put in place specifically to stop teams with a ton of money (and not subject to the final 4 rule) from going out and buying up everyone with huge signing bonuses.

Which "rule" are you speaking of? I'd like to look it up. It's my understanding that the final 8 teams have preclusions on signing FA's not already on their team but the other 24 do not. A final 8 team that loses a FA/FA's is allowed to pursue the same number lost, at values equal to or less than the contracts the players that left signed.

While this rule may be in place I'm still unsure of the legroom provided by the uncapped year to increase signing bonuses without the usual penalty. I don't know for sure if there even is any really but there seems to be alot of talk leaning that way and I just want to know definitively. I'm trying to look it up now but can't find anything specific.

 

[adsmm23]

-first they plan on retaining most of their 29 Free Agents or at least offering them a tender which will scare most teams away or net them high Draft Choices in return. key guys like Pierre, Evans, Bushrod, Harper will not be allowed to leave.

That's graet news.

they desire an elite pass rusher even more so than a run stuffer. they feel the Draft is deep with DT depth. so in the early rounds they'll be looking DE and OLB to get someone who'll be menacing in GW's blitz packages.

This definitely makes sense. Not that they would ever ignore the run game, but it seems like they would be willing to give up rushing yards to make big plays in the passing game. Our offense scores so many points, that it would be hard for another team to beat us just on rushing the ball

i think most people know the most obvious people are Charles Grant, Lance Moore and Jammal Brown, but i think one name who'll be key also is Zack Strief. he'll be coveted by many teams.

I'd love to keep Strief as well for depth because he's so versitle.

i know they are interested in Peppers, but i was quickly told after that was said "so are 31 other teams".

Any idea on how that would happen. I would just hate seeing us go all in on one player.

it was a real quick conversation as i'm trying to allow him to enjoy themselves basking in the after glow of the Super Bowl victory. i will have more time to talk to them after the Combine, so i'll get more then.

Thanks for the info. People with inside info like you and Superdad make this site very valueable.

i think the Saints will shock us with a move they make. i think they always look to be aggressive in the Draft and that won't change because we've won a Super Bowl.

Hopefully it's a good shock and not a Raiders type of shock.

For the record, I would prefer to keep all of them. Brown, Bushrod, and Strief. You can never have too much depth. Maybe get rid of one of them. But I think it is a bad idea to go into the season with only 2 Tackles and zero quality backups.

Well yeah, that would be ideal but not realistic given the current situation.

I've been thinking this for a while but if all the pure DE's are gone I think they would take a long look at Jerry Hughes and Ricky Sapp. Or maybe they even grade out above some of those DE's. They could play SAM in our 4-3 and give our 3-4 another look as well.

I've been saying this for a while and definitely think we would do something like this. It's no secret that GW likes verstile palyers on defense. He also likes to run the 3-4 from time to time, and I don't know how comfortable he feels with Marvin Mitchell in there.