Pat Kirwan said he heard Carr didn’t want to do Saints contract restructure (115 Viewers)

[Booker]

At this point I would think that he's stuck here for this season -- from the Saints perspective, they accelerated most of his salary into bonus money, and I can't see paying him close to $40M to go play for someone else this year. He would have to find a trade partner that both wants to throw the Saints some compensation and also allow the Saints to claw back some of the money they owe him for this year.

It is what it is, hopefully all parties make the best of it until what appears to be an inevitable parting next year.

 

[Chuck McGill Esq.]

Never heard tell of em. I’ll ask my Texan wife if she has, she loves Mexican food.

I was mostly being tongue and cheek. I imagine it's no different than Chipotle (never tried Chipotle). It's fine if you want a fast burrito. It's definitely not up there as far as a great Tex-Mex experience.

 

[St. Geezy]

I mean sure, you can believe what you want. At the same point, believing a report from 6 different sources doesn't make people Carr haters and I do have to wonder what it would take for you to believe something is true? Would Carr himself have to come out and say I want to be traded?

Frankly, I also find it telling that neither Carr nor his agent have denied any of these reports. A guy that is willing to say that he won't take a pay cut without being asked would seem to also be a guy that would quash any rumors that he wants to be traded if they were not true.

I do expect Carr to play up to the best of his ability. But, I think you know that it's better to have a QB that is bought in to the point that he wants to be here rather than a guy with one foot out the door. I mean we talk about the fact that one of the most important thing for a HC to be able to do is to get all his players to buy into what he is doing all the time.

You keep trying to characterize these as “reports.” They’re not reports. It’s hearsay.

 

[St. Widge]

LOL…not a source. If it gains traction with the mainstream, props to them, but I can almost guarantee that no legitimate media outlet is going to run with this.

No legitime media outlet needs to run with this when 6 have already essentially reporting what he is saying. But, I have my doubts that this guy has sources and I don't think it adds any credence to the story.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

I think the belief is that a good (and cap friendly) QB can only be obtained early in the first round. That obviously isn't true as there are plenty of examples of good QBs being drafted later in the 1st, the 2nd and even a few much later. The problem we have with the Saints is that they have refused to use a pick higher than a 3rd (Garret Grayson, 10 year ago) since the supplemental draft in 1981 (44 years ago). It's been so long that our 4th round QB from 1994 is now our OC.

I don't subscribe to this one. I remember Sean Payton talking profusesly about there being certain positions where you have to pay a premium to get the best talent. There are some postitions like RB, LB, S, G...where you can find guys late in the draft. DE, CB, QB, LT are positions where the higher you draft them, the better your chances of getting a quality player.

Yes you can find them at times outside of the first 2 rounds, but it's a crapshoot. Below isn't the exact quote I was referencing but I believe it does support the positions I listed as premium. The article was from 2018 and so was my memory, so you may find it relevant or not but I believe it still holds true.

Link to aritcle here, surprised I found the quote that quickly. https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2018/5/11/17326722/nfl-free-agent-pass-rusher-position-salary

“One of the offseason targets was a pressure player and that might come as a guy who lines up inside, it might come from a player that lines up outside,” Payton told the media at a May press conference. “But before we check that box we have to feel like he can affect the quarterback and in our league, there’s a premium on a few different positions, one of them is that, one of them is a corner. We saw the quarterbacks and the tackles. We can’t find those guys when the season is over with and we start free agency. They’re generally players you have to draft.”

Edit: My bad Elvis, I'm just seeing that you weren't implying mid round selections you were implying an early 1st rounder as the only way. Apologies for perceiving that incorrectly. I agree w/ your assessment.

 

[Chuck McGill Esq.]

I don't subscribe to this one. I remember Sean Payton talking profusesly about there being certain positions where you have to pay a premium to get the best talent. There are some postitions like RB, LB, S, G...where you can find guys late in the draft. DE, CB, QB, LT are positions where the higher you draft them, the better your chances of getting a quality player.

Yes you can find them at times outside of the first 2 rounds, but it's a crapshoot. Below isn't the exact quote I was referencing but I believe it doesn't confirm the positions I listed as premium. The article was from 2018 so you may find it relevant or not but I believe it still holds true.

Armstead was one of the biggest draft hits for this team in recent memory.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

Armstead was one of the biggest draft hits for this team in recent memory.

I don't disagree, that's why I was careful to say "you can hit on the position after the 1st two rounds, but it's a crapshoot" In other words I'm not saying you can't find legitimate tackles, passrusher,s QB's etc after the 1st two rounds, it happens...and there's proof it happens. However, there's far more proof that the higher you draft those premium positions the better your chances of hitting.

 

[St. Widge]

You keep trying to characterize these as “reports.” They’re not reports. It’s hearsay.

Technically hearsay is any out of court statement attempted to be used for the truth of the matter asserted in a court proceeding. But if we are going to use the colloquial definition of "hearsay", all reports are hearsay unless it's directly from the mouth of the persons involved. And even then, there are often two sides of any story so unless all parties confirm the truth, everything is "hearsay".

So, if you choose not to believe anything until every party involved specifically says it's true, that's cool. But I suspect you don't have that high of a standard for everything.

 

[kcirdor]

Just helping you out. They are easy to come by. Just mention Carr in anything but a SUPER GLOWING LIGHT and 2 members for sure will be along to hand them out.

Well, i intentionally got the condescending prick to put me on ignore. So one of them wont see me or even talk to me again...ahh so peaceful

 

[St. Geezy]

Technically hearsay is any out of court statement attempted to be used for the truth of the matter asserted in a court proceeding. But if we are going to use the colloquial definition of "hearsay", all reports are hearsay unless it's directly from the mouth of the persons involved. And even then, there are often two sides of any story so unless all parties confirm the truth, everything is "hearsay".

So, if you choose not to believe anything until every party involved specifically says it's true, that's cool. But I suspect you don't have that high of a standard for everything.

To you, Todd McShay merely mentioning “It may not be over with the Saints and Carr” during a draft discussion = “Report.”

 

[St. Widge]

I don't subscribe to this one. I remember Sean Payton talking profusesly about there being certain positions where you have to pay a premium to get the best talent. There are some postitions like RB, LB, S, G...where you can find guys late in the draft. DE, CB, QB, LT are positions where the higher you draft them, the better your chances of getting a quality player.

Yes you can find them at times outside of the first 2 rounds, but it's a crapshoot. Below isn't the exact quote I was referencing but I believe it does support the positions I listed as premium. The article was from 2018 and so was my memory, so you may find it relevant or not but I believe it still holds true.

Link to aritcle here, surprised I found the quote that quickly. https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2018/5/11/17326722/nfl-free-agent-pass-rusher-position-salary

That's true, but I think the point is that there is no justification for tearing a team apart or tanking for a high first round pick to use on an unknown QB when a good or possibly great QB can fairly regularly be found in the mid-to-late first and the 2nd. i.e. Rodgers, Lamar Jackson, Love, Hurts, Brees, etc.

The Saints problem is they haven't drafted a first or second round QB since they used a supplemental first on Dave Wilson in 1981. All they do is take shots on 3rd to 7th round guys which has a really low rate of success.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

Technically hearsay is any out of court statement attempted to be used for the truth of the matter asserted in a court proceeding. But if we are going to use the colloquial definition of "hearsay", all reports are hearsay unless it's directly from the mouth of the persons involved. And even then, there are often two sides of any story so unless all parties confirm the truth, everything is "hearsay".

So, if you choose not to believe anything until every party involved specifically says it's true, that's cool. But I suspect you don't have that high of a standard for everything.

That was well played, I don't suspect it'll get the connection you're hoping to make but I certainly digested it properly. You in law?

That's true, but I think the point is that there is no justification for tearing a team apart or tanking for a high first round pick to use on an unknown QB when a good or possibly great QB can fairly regularly be found in the mid-to-late first and the 2nd. i.e. Rodgers, Lamar Jackson, Love, Hurts, Brees, etc.

The Saints problem is they haven't drafted a first or second round QB since they used a supplemental first on Dave Wilson in 1981. All they do is take shots on 3rd to 7th round guys which has a really low rate of success.

I think were disconnected here. I went back and looked at Elvis original post and I read it wrong, thought he was suggesting we could find a starting QB after the 2nd round and my response was based on that. I agree w/ both of you're assessments.

Whoops.

 

[St. Widge]

To you, Todd McShay merely mentioning “It may not be over with the Saints and Carr” during a draft discussion = “Report.”

Do I really need to dissect each individual statement by all 6 guys and state whether they are a "report", "statement", "speculation", "hearsay", "guess", "statement of alleged fact", etc.? Is that where we are at this point?

What Nick and Trip said were definitely "reports". They specifically said Carr does not want to be here and he would waive his no trade clause. You can choose to label the rest of the "media reports", "statements", "specualtion", etc. however you want. You can also refuse to believe Nick and Tripp which I suspect you will do.

 

[SigFreudianSlip]

I was mostly being tongue in cheek. I imagine it's no different than Chipotle (never tried Chipotle). It's fine if you want a fast burrito. It's definitely not up there as far as a great Tex-Mex experience.

Gotcha.
Never had that either.

 

[St. Widge]

That was well played, I don't suspect it'll get the connection you're hoping to make but I certainly digested it properly. You in law?

Unfortunately, yes. I figured everyone would know by now given how argumentative, long winded, and out of touch with the rest of the world that I am.