25th Amendment (1 Viewer)

WhoDatPhan78

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DJ1BigTymer

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Galbreath34

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As embarrassing as Trump is, I can imagine no scarier precedent to set than Congress removing a POTUS by means other than a public impeachment trial.
 

coldseat

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As embarrassing as Trump is, I can imagine no scarier precedent to set than Congress removing a POTUS by means other than a public impeachment trial.

I agree. There will be a lot of proposals and call for unprecedented action over the next 4 years. While I understand the reasons and fear, a bigger historical view needs to be considered first.

Just like the nuclear option is now biting Democrats in the ***, you need to consider what the other side might do when/if they're in power. I know the reasons why Democrats undertook the nuclear options, Republicans in the house and senate where being obstructionist in a never before seen fashion and blocking everything! There was major gridlock on all sorts of appointments. But the result is that now they have no way of opposing this administration and congress. There were no good options as it is impossible to govern when half of the congress is acting like 2 year olds. Still, the result of that action is what we're now seeing.

So, I would undertake anything that is this serious very cautiously.
 

guidomerkinsrules

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this is all in McConnel & Ryan's laps
i'm sure they'll milk Trump for all they can and when he's no longer useful or becomes obstructionist to their wants, then we might see something

to put on the tinfoil hat (which, these days seems more and more like an actual hat made of space-age polymer) - if Russia has dirt on the big Rs like it supposedly has on Trump, then we shouldn't expect anything
 

Saint_Ward

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he looks unwell? are we really starting with a version of the Hillary Health nonsense?
 

Saint_Ward

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It's not nonsense. He's coming unhinged.
He's been that way.

So, is your question does mental health play into the definition of disabled or incapacitated? maybe, but I really doubt he's anywhere close to gone enough for the VP or the cabinet (which doesn't exist yet) to push for that. Remember, they all feel he has a mandate to do these things. Until he does something they think is crazy and bad, they won't do anything
 

superchuck500

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I'm not sure is he technically disabled (that would be an insult to real disabled people) but I do believe he suffers from Dunning–Kruger effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect

It's interesting but I don't think that applies to Trump. He clearly is a person of a fair degree of high ability. He has run, in an executive fashion, a number of companies successfully (despite some bankruptcies - which are very few if you look at how many companies he has created and run). He graduated from the Wharton undergraduate finance program. He has completed complex business deals and construction projects and many who have worked with Trump in the past do, indeed, remark that he is a very capable and motivated businessperson.

I don't think Dunning-Kruger fits what we have in Trump. Rather, I think it is very clearly narcissistic personality disorder. He commands and thrives on adoration, even above substance. He truly believes that he possesses skills and traits matched by few (or none). This may lead to some similar appearing results as Dunning-Kruger (incongruence between perceived ability and actual ability) but I think that those behaviors in what is a clearly someone who is not low ability - but actually high ability when compared to the average person - it is better explained by narcissism.

For psychologists, it is almost impossible to talk about Donald Trump without using the word narcissism.

Asked to sum up Trump’s personality for an article in Vanity Fair, Howard Gardner, a psychologist at Harvard, responded, “Remarkably narcissistic.” George Simon, a clinical psychologist who conducts seminars on manipulative behavior, says Trump is “so classic that I’m archiving video clips of him to use in workshops because there’s no better example” of narcissism. “Otherwise I would have had to hire actors and write vignettes. He’s like a dream come true.”
A Psychologist Analyzes Donald Trump
 

DaveXA

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He's been that way.

So, is your question does mental health play into the definition of disabled or incapacitated? maybe, but I really doubt he's anywhere close to gone enough for the VP or the cabinet (which doesn't exist yet) to push for that. Remember, they all feel he has a mandate to do these things. Until he does something they think is crazy and bad, they won't do anything
Agreed, I've been aware of Trump since the 80s. Was a finance major and had dabbled a bit in his book the art of the deal, which was just an ok book. His overarching worldview and approach to problem solving has remained largely intact. He's the same guy he's always been in a lot of respects. Which is why I was against him from the day he announced his candidacy. I'm still baffled that he got elected.

The only thing I can see happening is him getting impeached for some criminal misconduct or getting crazy with war/nukes. I don't see that happening. Plus, for all the criticism he gets, there is a method to his madness so to speak. He's smarter than we give him credit for, and coupled with his narcissistic tendencies, makes him potentially dangerous. For all of our sakes, I really hope he doesn't get nuts with our armed forces.
 

Galbreath34

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But the result is that now they have no way of opposing this administration and congress. There were no good options as it is impossible to govern when half of the congress is acting like 2 year olds. Still, the result of that action is what we're now seeing.
We agree on the general, but I think leadership that spent a year not holding hearings on a nominee would have used the nuclear option now regardless of whether it had been used before. I say this with no shred of doubt. Basically, it's trivia for history, but while I hate bad precedents, in this one case I don't think the Democrats actually opened a door that McConnell would have left shut even without the precedent. I mean, it's a much less significant breach from the norm than stalling for an entire calendar year. I mean part of the problem with precedents and the reason for our shared caution is that they make things more thinkable. I just think going to simple majority would be very "thinkable" without the precedent for these scuzzballs.
 

lapaz

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It's interesting but I don't think that applies to Trump. He clearly is a person of a fair degree of high ability. He has run, in an executive fashion, a number of companies successfully (despite some bankruptcies - which are very few if you look at how many companies he has created and run). He graduated from the Wharton undergraduate finance program. He has completed complex business deals and construction projects and many who have worked with Trump in the past do, indeed, remark that he is a very capable and motivated businessperson.

I don't think Dunning-Kruger fits what we have in Trump. Rather, I think it is very clearly narcissistic personality disorder. He commands and thrives on adoration, even above substance. He truly believes that he possesses skills and traits matched by few (or none). This may lead to some similar appearing results as Dunning-Kruger (incongruence between perceived ability and actual ability) but I think that those behaviors in what is a clearly someone who is not low ability - but actually high ability when compared to the average person - it is better explained by narcissism.



A Psychologist Analyzes Donald Trump
Dunning-Kruger may be an exaggeration, but I definitely think that Trump has delusions of competence in areas in which he has no competence. I think he is very narcissistic, but there are other disorders at play as well.
 

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