Conservative Catholics question Pope Francis’s approach

[Optimus Prime]

interesting article from Washington Post
==========================================

Rattled by Pope Francis’s admonishment to Catholics not to be “obsessed” by doctrine, his stated reluctance to judge gay people and his apparent willingness to engage just about anyone — including atheists — many conservative Catholics are doing what only recently seemed unthinkable:

They are openly questioning the pope.

Concern among traditionalists began building soon after Francis was elected this spring. Almost immediately, the new pope told non-Catholic and atheist journalists he would bless them silently out of respect. Soon after, he eschewed Vatican practice and included women in a foot-washing ceremony.

The wary traditionalists became critical when, in an interview a few weeks ago, Francis said Catholics shouldn’t be “obsessed” with imposing doctrines, including on gay marriage and abortion. Then earlier this month, Francis told an atheist journalist that people should follow good and fight evil as they “conceive” of them. These remarks followed an interview with journalists this summer aboard the papal airplane in which the pope declared that it is not his role to judge someone who is gay “if they accept the Lord and have goodwill.”........

Conservative Catholics question Pope Francis

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

yet another example that he's on a better path

Conservative Christianity (including Catholicism) is about as oxymoronic a phrase as you can get - jesus spent most of his time preaching against the conservative politics/religion of his time

edit: when this topic comes up i get rererereminded of Dostoyesvky's "The Grand Inquisitor"

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/8578/8578-h/8578-h.htm

 

[xpuma20x]

While I personally view the pope's outlook for the Catholic Church as a positive thing, I'm not even the least bit surprised that there are some that don't enjoy the things he has to say. Of course there are. Religion is similar to politics. Some people are more conservative within their own religion, some are more liberal. If you're a super conservative hardcore traditional Catholic and suddenly the Pope himself is saying things that are somewhat liberal for your view, you might not be happy at first..or at all.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

While I personally view the pope's outlook for the Catholic Church as a positive thing, I'm not even the least bit surprised that there are some that don't enjoy the things he has to say. Of course there are. Religion is similar to politics. Some people are more conservative within their own religion, some are more liberal. If you're a super conservative hardcore traditional Catholic and suddenly the Pope himself is saying things that are somewhat liberal for your view, you might not be happy at first..or at all.

just like the Islamic extremists, radical Hindus & Buddhists (whatever the **** that is) - if your doctrine is in direct contradiction to the source material then your doctrine is incorrect

 

[geauxboy]

Conservative Catholics questioning the Pope? He must be doing something right.

 

[coldseat]

As a practicing and orthodox Catholic, personally I love Pope Francis. The Catholic church by definition is neither conservative nor liberal, but what it seeks to teach is the truth of the gospel, the truth of Jesus Christ. In today's age, some of those teachings come across as conservative and some come across as liberal, but to the church it's just the truth. It should be that way for all Catholics as well.

It doesn't surprise me at all that many people who call themselves conservative Catholics feel challenged and maybe even somewhat put off by Pope Francis and his teachings. Some will look inside themselves and grow. Others will question him, oppose him and dismiss him. There are examples of both in the linked article. But to me after having both Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI who strongly emphasized the Church's teaching on abortion, marriage and other teachings that many identify as conservative (both of whom I love and appreciate); it's refreshing and a sign that the Holy Spirit is the one who really guides the church to have Pope Francis who brings to light and emphasizes a different and important aspect of the churches social teaching and openness to all. It is all part and parcel of the same Catholic church.

 

[bayoubadboy]

It amazes me how any story about perceived dissension in the Catholic Church makes headlines.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

As a practicing and orthodox Catholic, personally I love Pope Francis. The Catholic church by definition is neither conservative nor liberal, but what it seeks to teach is the truth of the gospel, the truth of Jesus Christ.

would you not characterize Jesus's teachings as exceptionally liberal?

here's an extreme example of "catholic" "conservativism"

Italian conservative Catholics hold Nazi funeral amid protests | The Raw Story

Catholic breakaway traditionalists held a funeral for Nazi war criminal Erich Priebke in a town near Rome on Tuesday as hundreds of angry protesters outside shouted “Assassin!” and “Hangman!”

The ultra-conservative Society of St Pius X in Albano celebrated a private ceremony in Latin with family and far-right extremist sympathisers present for the unrepentant former SS officer.

 

[coldseat]

would you not characterize Jesus's teachings as exceptionally liberal?

here's an extreme example of "catholic" "conservativism"

Italian conservative Catholics hold Nazi funeral amid protests | The Raw Story

I would characterize Jesus's teachings as Jesus's teaching. Some of them would by today's standards be called liberal, others conservative. But that's what I'm talking about, it's neither one or the other. There is a totality to his teaching and it shouldn't be parsed apart by one's particular liking. It's all important and all Catholics should seek to live out the totality of his teachings.

I haven't looked at the link yet. I will, but by its title, I'm not sure what relevance it has to the conversation aside from being "OMG geesh, look at what these conservative Catholics did".

BTW, many, including many Catholics themselves, have bought on to the notion of "conservative Catholics" and "liberal Catholics". It's something that's pushed by the media as well. But both terms are an oxymoron. "Catholic" by definition is universal. There shouldn't be a partition of Catholics within the church, it should be inclusive. But I'm probably pushing against the grain with this argument.

 

[coldseat]

here's an extreme example of "catholic" "conservativism"

Italian conservative Catholics hold Nazi funeral amid protests | The Raw Story

Read the link, and pretty much what I figured. The Society of St. Pius X doesn't even have canonical standing within the Catholic church. All of the ministries its ministers perform are illicit and not legitimate in the church's view.

It's a rouge origination.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

I would characterize Jesus's teachings as Jesus's teaching. Some of them would by today's standards be called liberal, others conservative. But that's what I'm talking about, it's neither one or the other. There is a totality to his teaching and it shouldn't be parsed apart by one's particular liking. It's all important and all Catholics should seek to live out the totality of his teachings.

I haven't looked at the link yet. I will, but by its title, I'm not sure what relevance it has to the conversation aside from being "OMG geesh, look at what these conservative Catholics did".

forgive (as opposed to punish/judge, which should be left to god)
give your wealth away to the poor (do not accumulate wealth)
the only commandments are to love
pay your taxes

what would you add to that that might be more on the 'conservative' side

BTW, many, including many Catholics themselves, have bought on to the notion of "conservative Catholics" and "liberal Catholics". It's something that's pushed by the media as well. But both terms are an oxymoron. "Catholic" by definition is universal. There shouldn't be a partition of Catholics within the church, it should be inclusive. But I'm probably pushing against the grain with this argument.

"c"atholic certainly means universal
"C"atholic doesn't seem to - as soon as you say something lies outside of your belief system, you're not really universal anymore, yeah?

 

[lades]

As a practicing and orthodox Catholic, personally I love Pope Francis. The Catholic church by definition is neither conservative nor liberal, but what it seeks to teach is the truth of the gospel, the truth of Jesus Christ..

You are mistaking church doctrine for the truth. They are not necessarily one and the same.

 

[coldseat]

forgive (as opposed to punish/judge, which should be left to god)
give your wealth away to the poor (do not accumulate wealth)
the only commandments are to love
pay your taxes

what would you add to that that might be more on the 'conservative' side

I came not to abolish the Law, but to fulfill it.
what God has joined, no man human being must separate (marriage).
whoever has my commandments and follows them, loves me

"c"atholic certainly means universal
"C"atholic doesn't seem to - as soon as you say something lies outside of your belief system, you're not really universal anymore, yeah?

From it's inception, there where beliefs that lied outside of the church's belief system. But all who are members of the church are part of one universal church, not a conservative or liberal church.

 

[coldseat]

You are mistaking church doctrine for the truth. They are not necessarily one and the same.

Church doctrine comes from the truth of the gospel, the truth of Jesus Christ. If you're not Catholic, you may not believe that. But I am, so I do.