Defensive Line pressure (1 Viewer)

[Saint Droopy]

I'm sitting here looking at NFL Playbook on NFLN, and they just played some sideline clips from the Tampa vs NYG game... and the Giants Dline was all over Garcia... hitting him on throws... hurrying his passes, and sacking him.

This immediately made me think of our defensive line... and how we let QBs sit in the pocket and pick our secondary apart.

The Giant defense is the perfect example of how a great defensive line can hide your weaknesses in the back 7. There bck 7 are not much better than ours (IMO)... think about it...

LBs

WILL = Reggie Torbor (39 tkls) vs Shanle (69 tkls)
MIKE = Antonio Pierce (103 tkls) vs Simeneau (70 tkls)
SAM = Kawika Mitchell (76 tkls) vs Fujita (94 tkls)

So the LBs are pretty much a wash... they have the superior MIKE LB, but our OLBs are statistically better.

Secondary

CBs: Sam Madison and Aaron Ross
Safeties: James Butler and Gibril Wilson

The only name that really "jumps out" at you is Sam Madison, and he's like 75 years old. Aaron Ross is a rookie that the Giants wasn't afraid to play... and hey we have one of the,... and he actually did OK when he was in there.

The biggest difference in our defense is the defensive line, and as much as we need CBs and a FS... I think we should try to do something about our line... and since we are pretty much "stuck" with Grant and Smith... I hope the FO make them get into shape, and drop a few lbs and come into camp in better shape than they were at the end of the season.

We need better DTs... sure Hollis can play, but we have no other DTs that can... so we have work to do this offseason.

 

[CitySaint]

An emphasis on our ends getting a pass rush could jeopardize run support there has to be a balance I suppose. The Saints just have never been able to find it. When the ends have success in terms of pressure on the qb we suck at stopping the run and when they are stout run defenders we suck against the pass.

I remember when Grant was a rookie he was phenomenal at putting pressure on the qb but was horrible against the run. I chalked it up to him being a rookie and not knowing when to let loose and when to hold his gap. Maybe even though they are vets they still don't know the difference of when to do what. They can only do one or the other.

 

[Pokerbrat]

Goods points about the giants.

We could use a Mark Anderson (Bears DE) type speed rusher type to compliment Smith and Grant.... neither have great speed and had trouble getting to the QB last year. A speed rusher would be great for third and long.

Our DT's were not terrible, solid against the run, below average getting in the QBs face and pressuring up the gut. We could use a talent upgrade at that position, and maybe some youth (most of our DT's that actually played are around 30 or older).

A pure speedy pass rusher and a young, high-motor DT are high on my want list.

 

[Saint Droopy]

An emphasis on our ends getting a pass rush could jeopardize run support there has to be a balance I suppose. The Saints just have never been able to find it. When the ends have success in terms of pressure on the qb we suck at stopping the run and when they are stout run defenders we suck against the pass.

I remember when Grant was a rookie he was phenomenal at putting pressure on the qb but was horrible against the run. I chalked it up to him being a rookie and not knowing when to let loose and when to hold his gap. Maybe even though they are vets they still don't know the difference of when to do what. They can only do one or the other.

See that's the thing... we shouldn't have to worry about sacrificing one aspect of the D in order to thrive in another.

The Giants finished 8th (link) against the run (97.7 ppg)... Philly (another team wth good DEs) finished 7th... why should we settle?

 

[4saintspirit]

We worried so much about the run that we sacrifcied the rush. I think if we had better linebackers our DE's would get more sacks. Will Smith and Charles Grant can always put pressure if they are let loose. They rarely really go after the QB -- at least for the last few years. Seems like by getting much better against the run we sacrificed the pressure. Someone above mentioned balance and I believe that may be the case.

 

[CitySaint]

Not having Young played a major factor in pressure this year as well. He was the only consistent pressure up the middle for us the caused the QB to rollout into the waiting arms of Grant or Smith. He also made it tougher for teams to double and chip Grant on many plays. Losing Young and not finding a suitable replacement is another issue that has to be addressed.

 

[birdog]

Saint Droopy, you said in your original post that we're stuck with Grant & Smith. We're only stuck with Grant, not with Smith, and I'm starting to think that maybe we should be looking elswhere for a speed rusher. Will Smith is good, but not consistent, Grant has a brand new contract, and that makes him immune. Just a thought....what if we get a marquee LB (say Briggs) in FA, then draft a DE, and then look to trade Smith? That would save a bunch of $$$$, plus we might be looking for a DT in the FA too...I'm not saying to draft a DE in the 1st rd......but we might get a speed rusher in the 2nd, and then get that FS from Miami in the 1st rd....

 

[Saint Droopy]

Saint Droopy, you said in your original post that we're stuck with Grant & Smith. We're only stuck with Grant, not with Smith, and I'm starting to think that maybe we should be looking elswhere for a speed rusher. Will Smith is good, but not consistent, Grant has a brand new contract, and that makes him immune. Just a thought....what if we get a marquee LB (say Briggs) in FA, then draft a DE, and then look to trade Smith? That would save a bunch of $$$$, plus we might be looking for a DT in the FA too...I'm not saying to draft a DE in the 1st rd......but we might get a speed rusher in the 2nd, and then get that FS from Miami in the 1st rd....

True... I don't think the FO would sign Grant and let Smith walk... that would be real dumb IMO... to let the better guy leave.

Here's my "HC/GM for a minute" moment...

1. I'd move Grant to DT... let him replace Bryan Young... he's big enough... strong enough... and quick enough to casue some problems for interior linemen.

2. I'd move Will Smith over to the other side... let he and Grant play on the same side of th line.

3. I'd go HARD after Suggs and Jarred Allen... I's sign one of those 2... preferably Jarred Allen because he's stronger... but I'd play Suggs at DE if I were to sign him.

So we'd have a Dline that looks like:

LDE - Smith/
3-Tech - Grant/Lake
DT - Hollis/Clancy
RDE - Allen (or Suggs)/Cooper

I think we would be able to help our secondary like this as well as defend the run.

 

[supersaint15]

dude torbor only started like 3 games

 

[supersaint15]

and gibril wilson is a hell of a safety

 

[birdog]

True... I don't think the FO would sign Grant and let Smith walk... that would be real dumb IMO... to let the better guy leave.

Here's my "HC/GM for a minute" moment...

1. I'd move Grant to DT... let him replace Bryan Young... he's big enough... strong enough... and quick enough to casue some problems for interior linemen.

2. I'd move Will Smith over to the other side... let he and Grant play on the same side of th line.

3. I'd go HARD after Suggs and Jarred Allen... I's sign one of those 2... preferably Jarred Allen because he's stronger... but I'd play Suggs at DE if I were to sign him.

So we'd have a Dline that looks like:

LDE - Smith/
3-Tech - Grant/Lake
DT - Hollis/Clancy
RDE - Allen (or Suggs)/Cooper

I think we would be able to help our secondary like this as well as defend the run.

Neither Shuggs, nor Jared Allen will see FA, I'm afraid....Allen is worshipped here in KS, and they will most assuredly tag him before anybody can touch him. I'm expecting the same for Shuggs....

But I keep coming back to Will Smith....do you think Loomis will pay Smith what he is asking ? If Grant got $60 mil, what will Smith be asking? Is he really worth that much? He had a down year, and it is questionable if he can get much better....shouldn't the saints try to trade him? And if they do, what is his worth?

 

[NCSaint]

I'm sitting here looking at NFL Playbook on NFLN, and they just played some sideline clips from the Tampa vs NYG game... and the Giants Dline was all over Garcia... hitting him on throws... hurrying his passes, and sacking him.

This immediately made me think of our defensive line... and how we let QBs sit in the pocket and pick our secondary apart.

The Giant defense is the perfect example of how a great defensive line can hide your weaknesses in the back 7. There bck 7 are not much better than ours (IMO)... think about it...

LBs

WILL = Reggie Torbor (39 tkls) vs Shanle (69 tkls)
MIKE = Antonio Pierce (103 tkls) vs Simeneau (70 tkls)
SAM = Kawika Mitchell (76 tkls) vs Fujita (94 tkls)

So the LBs are pretty much a wash... they have the superior MIKE LB, but our OLBs are statistically better.

Secondary

CBs: Sam Madison and Aaron Ross
Safeties: James Butler and Gibril Wilson

The only name that really "jumps out" at you is Sam Madison, and he's like 75 years old. Aaron Ross is a rookie that the Giants wasn't afraid to play... and hey we have one of the,... and he actually did OK when he was in there.

The biggest difference in our defense is the defensive line, and as much as we need CBs and a FS... I think we should try to do something about our line... and since we are pretty much "stuck" with Grant and Smith... I hope the FO make them get into shape, and drop a few lbs and come into camp in better shape than they were at the end of the season.

We need better DTs... sure Hollis can play, but we have no other DTs that can... so we have work to do this offseason.

And they (Giants DLine) came alive again today especially in the second half. This is why the Giants are moving on. The Saints BETTER learn something from this.

 

[skymike]

reviving this thread

Droopy, this thread is even more relevant today. I completely agree that DT is our most glaring need. And I would have no sacred cows. The Giants showed yesterday that the best pass coverage is a pass rush.

I know I'm dreaming but Saints drafting Glenn Dorsey this year would generate as much electricity as Reggie did, warranted or not. Some of you might hate it, I dont know. We need a "Bruce Smith" type pick.

 

[robsmith32]

wasn't will smith known for his speed coming out of college?
maybe, the powers that be, had them gain weight, because they were tired of giving up 70+ yard runs every couple of games, and often multiples of 70 in a game.
That did stop.
maybe it's their transition to give the fans what they want, a 3-4... but that takes time.
and we don't havet he LB's for it. we're short 1 as it is.
that's why fujita isnt' in dallas, is not being suited for the 3-4. and he's our best LB.