Snowboard and skiers accident. (1 Viewer)

[sonicboom]

So, this is a dated story from 2010, but I think it's worth a discussion. At the very least, it will bring awareness on mountain safety.





After watching the video above, your heart breaks for the death of the child, and suffering of the mother, and family. Which is tragic for sure, but why isn't the full story revealed?


From articles on the net, this is what I gather...

A 22 year old snowboarder named, Craig Shirley was skiing down an icy black diamond run, and accidentally hit a 5 year (Elise Johnson), and her mother (Kelly Johnson). The snowboarder and child died on impact, and mother was severely injured, but later recovered fairly well, after years of medical treatment.

Apparently the mother and daughter stopped at a low point on the hill, which wasn't visible from skiers/snowboarders above. To emphasize, it was a black diamond run, which is typically dangerous for most, with icy conditions, and stopping at a blind spot with mother and kid.

So, my view point would be that, blacks (black rated ski runs) are for advanced skiers/snowboarders, who throw caution a side, but demonstrate strong enough skills to handle difficult terrain. Blue trails are generally far less dangerous runs, and are for intermediate riders, while greens are the easiest, and are generally preferred in learning to ski and ride.

With that said, the video above, sorta paints a picture, that snowboarders need to slow down, because they kill little kids. Well, black runs are dangerous! Ever ski a black run with icy conditions?!?! Would you take your 5 year old there? An icy blue run is scary enough, but an icy black run is generally asking for trouble, if your not pro/expert.

One, if I had a 5 year old kid, they would probably not even be allowed to snowboard or ski, unless it's a bunny slope (green run), with a trained instructor, while I would stand guard for any renegade riders. I would probably be over protected, and wouldn't let my kid go skiing/snowboarding, until the age of 10.

Anyways, the parents of the deceased child, don't hold any angst against the snowboarder, because it was an accident. Accidents happen all the time on the slopes, or at least it's common enough, to have snow patrol, and first aid on stand by.

So, who is at fault? Would the snowboarder bombing down a black run going 50 mph, be at fault, when skiiers stop at a blind spot?!?! Maybe someone would consider taking a 5 year to a black ski run, child endangerment?!?! One article noted, that the mother used to be a ski instructor, why didn't she practice more safety precautions?

What's your take?

Wyoming Skiers Killed in Deadly Collision; Crash Highlights Risks

In a Christmas Eve tragedy, 5-year-old Elsie Johnson and 23-year-old Craig Shirley died after a collision on the slopes at Hogadon Ski Area in Casper, Wyoming. The accident highlights the benefits and limitations of helmets and ski safety.

abcnews.go.com

5-Year-Old Girl in Wyo. Ski Death Wore Helmet

Coroner Corrects Reports, says Elise Johnson was Wearing Helmet in Collision that Also Killed Snowboarder

www.cbsnews.com

#RideAnotherDay

Couple partners with NSAA to launch on-hill safety initiative.

www.skimag.com

 

[Wisco Steve]

I was a junior Olympic downhill ski racer, I've skied basically everywhere in US/Canada...
Sometimes runs start as black diamonds or double blacks but end up feeding into lesser slopes where more general folks are skiing. I can't tell if that is what happened here and it doesn't seem like it? Most of the messed up stuff I've witnessed on the slopes is because inexperienced people go/end up in places they should not be. Terrible accident here.

 

[sonicboom]

I was a junior Olympic downhill ski racer, I've skied basically everywhere in US/Canada...
Sometimes runs start as black diamonds or double blacks but end up feeding into lesser slopes where more general folks are skiing. I can't tell if that is what happened here and it doesn't seem like it? Most of the messed up stuff I've witnessed on the slopes is because inexperienced people go/end up in places they should not be. Terrible accident here.

That's awesome your were in the Olympics. You must of been very skilled.

What do you think about having certifications for blue/blacks/double blacks? Maybe required lesson to certify for each level, then having to show your card, before you can buy a lift ticket. It would at least, give some safety on the mountain.

You need a driver's license to drive a car, why not a license to ride extremely dangerous slippery slope?

Education and skill need to be addressed.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

Ex fiancé and I went skiing
She’s skied plenty and it was my second time (we’d been together on my first time too)
She saw I was getting ok on skis so she decided to go snowboard our 2nd day
It was probably our last trip down the hill and were on a mixed slope - slower skiers Outside, faster boarders inside
She had drifted over to help me and a boarder up the hill has fallen which sort of forced this other boarder (who was flying) into my ex’s path and he just smacked right into her
Everyone agreed that it was just a series of unfortunate events (except I still wanted to smack the guy with my pole)

 

[Wisco Steve]

That's awesome your were in the Olympics. You must of been very skilled.

What do you think about having certifications for blue/blacks/double blacks? Maybe required lesson to certify for each level, then having to show your card, before you can buy a lift ticket. It would at least, give some safety on the mountain.

You need a driver's license to drive a car, why not a license to ride extremely dangerous slippery slope?

Education and skill need to be addressed.

Certainly not a bad thought...esp considering the speeds you can get up to--even on smaller slopes.

 

[sonicboom]

Report says, it was the Dreadnought run, at Hogadon. Johnson family sues ski resort for loss of life of daughter.

Dreadnought is an advanced run, with a straight shot directly to the only lift, on the mountain. The green trails are located to the far right of the mountain, while Dreadnought is dead center of the mountain.

Hogadon Basin Trail Map | OnTheSnow

View the Hogadon Basin trail map for a preview of the trails and lifts at the ski resort. Navigate the mountain with the latest Hogadon Basin ski maps.

www.onthesnow.com

Casper, WY – Five-year-old Elise Johnson was killed on Christmas Eve 2010 when she was struck by a snowboarder at Casper’s city-owned Hogadon ski area. Her family has now filed a lawsuit over the collision.

"Reports indicate that Shirley was traveling at approximately 50 miles per hour when he collided with the mother and daughter on Hogadon’s black diamond Dreadnaught run. They were the only guests on Dreadnaught at the time"

Parents File Lawsuit Over Child’s Skiing Death at Hogadon | First Tracks!! Online Ski Magazine

Witness says, Shirley was travelling fast, but in control. Two skiers were crouched down behind a ridge. Shirley went off the ridge and hit both skiers chest/head area. All parties were not moving, after impact.

"No crime found in fatal ski collision at Hogodon"​

No crime found in fatal ski collision at Hogodon

By The Associated Press

www.gillettenewsrecord.com

 

[Sailorsaint]

My personal opinion is that a 5 year old should not have been on that slope. If the mother was clueless as to where they were, it’s a tragic accident caused by lack of knowledge about the area. It feels like the mother is feeling guilty and needs closure, hence the lawsuit.

 

[Madmarsha]

My first thought was, eh, I've had little kids fly by my 18-year-old self (pretty much the last time I skied. It's why I still have good knees, I think). And then I remembered that was on the bunny slopes. But I also think little 5-year-old Franz Klammer probably shouldn't be on a black diamond.

My vote was both mother and snowboarder's fault; but it's also, I think a freak accident. I'm not sure how you put speed limits on skiers or snowboarders esp. on black runs. Speed is kind of the point on such runs, no? It's a tragedy but I don't think anyone's "fault" considering the circumstances. I'm changing my vote.

 

[Madmarsha]

My personal opinion is that a 5 year old should not have been on that slope. If the mother was clueless as to where they were, it’s a tragic accident caused by lack of knowledge about the area. It feels like the mother is feeling guilty and needs closure, hence the lawsuit.

Apparently the mother was herself a ski instructor. I am a little surprised, never having thought about it before, that there isn't at least an age limit on black diamond runs. I know kids can be good skiers (lower center of gravity for one thing); but I would be hard pressed to agree that they can or should be considered "expert" skiers at 10 let alone 5 no matter what their parents or instructors think.

 

[sonicboom]

My first thought was, eh, I've had little kids fly by my 18-year-old self (pretty much the last time I skied. It's why I still have good knees, I think). And then I remembered that was on the bunny slopes. But I also think little 5-year-old Franz Klammer probably shouldn't be on a black diamond.

My vote was both mother and snowboarder's fault; but it's also, I think a freak accident. I'm not sure how you put speed limits on skiers or snowboarders esp. on black runs. Speed is kind of the point on such runs, no? It's a tragedy but I don't think anyone's "fault" considering the circumstances. I'm changing my vote.

I think it will be really hard to point the finger on whose fault it is, but here is some of my thinking.

Most skiers and boarders agree, that sitting in a blind spot is a really bad idea, especially on a black run, and crouching down below a ridge. In that situation, you are either completely clueless, or just don't belong on the mountain.

If you need to fix your gear, make sure you are hugging the sides, and are able to be seen from traffic coming down, so people can get by.

Reports from eye witnesses say, the mother and her kid were there for about three minutes. The mother was reportedly a former ski instructor, so she must of been caught up, on being a mother and enjoying the moment. I'm pretty sure, if you talk to most employed ski instructors, here actions were not recommended. If you hear from ski patrol say, it's o.k. to crouch in blind spots on black trails, report them to management immediately.

You are basically relying on the skills of traffic coming down a trail, to safe guard your health, and possibly just luck of the draw to get you through the dangerous situation. In this situation, skill of the skier had nothing to do with it, because it was a black trail, while two skiers were hidden at a blind spot. Red flags there.

That is a triple red flag. I would hope most ski patrols would either kick them two off the mountain, or have a serious discussion on safety, if this happened on another location. Next time you goto a mountain, ask ski patrol what they think about crouching down on a blind spot, on a black run. They would look at you, like your on drugs. It's a big no-no.

Now was the snowboarder riding dangerously? That is a judgment call and with no speed limits on black trails, there will never be a clear cut answer. Investigation was done and no crimes were found to be committed. Eye witnesses repeatedly say, he was in control.

On the other hand, the rule of thumb is, traffic below you has the right away, and you need to stay in control. The thing about this though, if your in a blind spot, how is that the fault of the snowboarder?

Will a 23 year old snowboarder/thrill seeker keep his speed to 15 mph in all blind spots, so he can stop at a dime? This is absurd to say, the least. If the mountain had speed limits on black trails, there could be a problem, but ski resorts don't really regulate speed, until you get near the lift lines.

It was definitely an accident, but it was totally preventable, and ski instructors should know better. That's about all I can say about it, without being insensitive.

I have bombed down a blue run, with fast winding turns, with trees every where, with a bunch of teenagers sitting down, and blocking the trail completely. No incident happened, but it could of ended much worse. Stay out of the way, or at least give traffic a chance to get by you.

The snowboarder had zero chance of avoiding the collision. He died on impact. The mother could of pushed her daughter off to the side, out of harms way, and nobody would of got hurt. If she had a whistle, maybe she could of blew the whistle, to let me people know of danger ahead.

In surfing, if you get in someone's way on a wave, you can get your faced punched in, by some heavy local. Sometimes the police don't care, if your face gets punched in. Just saying. It's the way of the jungle.

Here are the rules of the mountain, so we can examine these.

Know the Code​

Here are the seven rules of slope safety to keep you and others out of harm’s way:

1. Always stay in control and be able to stop or avoid other people or objects.
2. People ahead of you have the right of way. It’s your responsibility to avoid them.
3. Don’t stop where you obstruct a trail or aren’t visible from above.
4. Whenever starting downhill or merging into a trail, look uphill and yield to others.
5. Always use devices to help prevent runaway equipment.
6. Observe all posted signs and warnings. Keep off closed trails and out of closed areas.
7. Prior to using any lift, you must have the knowledge and ability to load, ride, and unload safely.

Ultimately, it’s up to each of us to use common sense, show courtesy to others, and be aware of our surroundings to stay safe on the slopes.'

Know the Code: 7 Rules of Ski Resort Safety

Helmet, goggles, and gloves are a few important things to bring along for a long day on the slopes to stay safe and warm. But common sense is probably the most important thing to bring when you’re skiing or snowboarding.

intermountainhealthcare.org

If this is the code, than snowboarder broke rules 1 and 2, while mother broke rule 3. Since mother was a former ski instructor (with a 5 year old child), whose job is to protect her child from danger, I'm assigning a double rule break. Conclusion: It was an accident, where both snowboarder and child's guardian are equally at fault.

This is just an opinion, I'm just trying to figure out safety.

Another thing is, it was Christmas Eve at the resort, so it was technically a family day. Maybe it's possible that ski resorts can implement family day skiing on certain days. Holidays and weekends slower skiing could be enforced.

For the mother and child, they were probably thinking love, holidays, enjoying the time together at a beautiful mountain. The snowboarder on the other hand, was probably like I'm gonna tear this mountain up, and this Dreadnought trail is child's play.

Totally two different mind sets. Maybe they can designate family days at slower speeds on the mountain, or make green trails on family days, really slow for safety? Age requirements on family days. Basically, ski resorts need to figure out a way to make ski resorts safer. Possibly even certify skiers for blue and black rated trails.

600,000 ski related injuries a year may need some more regulations. Often ski resorts struggle to make a profit as it is, so it's gonna be tough sledding.

Brand new snowboarders sometimes can't even get on or off a lift. Mountain safety needs to be updated, to prevent injuries.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

I think it will be really hard to point the finger on whose fault it is, but here is some of my thinking.

Most skiers and boarders agree, that sitting in a blind spot is a really bad idea, especially on a black run, and crouching down below a ridge. In that situation, you are either completely clueless, or just don't belong on the mountain.

If you need to fix your gear, make sure you are hugging the sides, and are able to be seen from traffic coming down, so people can get by.

Reports from eye witnesses say, the mother and her kid were there for about three minutes. The mother was reportedly a former ski instructor, so she must of been caught up, on being a mother and enjoying the moment. I'm pretty sure, if you talk to most employed ski instructors, here actions were not recommended. If you hear from ski patrol say, it's o.k. to crouch in blind spots on black trails, report them to management immediately.

You are basically relying on the skills of traffic coming down a trail, to safe guard your health, and possibly just luck of the draw to get you through the dangerous situation. In this situation, skill of the skier had nothing to do with it, because it was a black trail, while two skiers were hidden at a blind spot. Red flags there.

That is a triple red flag. I would hope most ski patrols would either kick them two off the mountain, or have a serious discussion on safety, if this happened on another location. Next time you goto a mountain, ask ski patrol what they think about crouching down on a blind spot, on a black run. They would look at you, like your on drugs. It's a big no-no.

Now was the snowboarder riding dangerously? That is a judgment call and with no speed limits on black trails, there will never be a clear cut answer. Investigation was done and no crimes were found to be committed. Eye witnesses repeatedly say, he was in control.

On the other hand, the rule of thumb is, traffic below you has the right away, and you need to stay in control. The thing about this though, if your in a blind spot, how is that the fault of the snowboarder?

Will a 23 year old snowboarder/thrill seeker keep his speed to 15 mph in all blind spots, so he can stop at a dime? This is absurd to say, the least. If the mountain had speed limits on black trails, there could be a problem, but ski resorts don't really regulate speed, until you get near the lift lines.

It was definitely an accident, but it was totally preventable, and ski instructors should know better. That's about all I can say about it, without being insensitive.

I have bombed down a blue run, with fast winding turns, with trees every where, with a bunch of teenagers sitting down, and blocking the trail completely. No incident happened, but it could of ended much worse. Stay out of the way, or at least give traffic a chance to get by you.

The snowboarder had zero chance of avoiding the collision. He died on impact. The mother could of pushed her daughter off to the side, out of harms way, and nobody would of got hurt. If she had a whistle, maybe she could of blew the whistle, to let me people know of danger ahead.

In surfing, if you get in someone's way on a wave, you can get your faced punched in, by some heavy local. Sometimes the police don't care, if your face gets punched in. Just saying. It's the way of the jungle.

Here are the rules of the mountain, so we can examine these.

Know the Code​

Here are the seven rules of slope safety to keep you and others out of harm’s way:

1. Always stay in control and be able to stop or avoid other people or objects.
2. People ahead of you have the right of way. It’s your responsibility to avoid them.
3. Don’t stop where you obstruct a trail or aren’t visible from above.
4. Whenever starting downhill or merging into a trail, look uphill and yield to others.
5. Always use devices to help prevent runaway equipment.
6. Observe all posted signs and warnings. Keep off closed trails and out of closed areas.
7. Prior to using any lift, you must have the knowledge and ability to load, ride, and unload safely.

Ultimately, it’s up to each of us to use common sense, show courtesy to others, and be aware of our surroundings to stay safe on the slopes.'

Know the Code: 7 Rules of Ski Resort Safety

Helmet, goggles, and gloves are a few important things to bring along for a long day on the slopes to stay safe and warm. But common sense is probably the most important thing to bring when you’re skiing or snowboarding.

intermountainhealthcare.org

If this is the code, than snowboarder broke rules 1 and 2, while mother broke rule 3. Since mother was a former ski instructor (with a 5 year old child), whose job is to protect her child from danger, I'm assigning a double rule break. Conclusion: It was an accident, where both snowboarder and child's guardian are equally at fault.

This is just an opinion, I'm just trying to figure out safety.

Another thing is, it was Christmas Eve at the resort, so it was technically a family day. Maybe it's possible that ski resorts can implement family day skiing on certain days. Holidays and weekends slower skiing could be enforced.

For the mother and child, they were probably thinking love, holidays, enjoying the time together at a beautiful mountain. The snowboarder on the other hand, was probably like I'm gonna tear this mountain up, and this Dreadnought trail is child's play.

Totally two different mind sets. Maybe they can designate family days at slower speeds on the mountain, or make green trails on family days, really slow for safety? Age requirements on family days. Basically, ski resorts need to figure out a way to make ski resorts safer. Possibly even certify skiers for blue and black rated trails.

600,000 ski related injuries a year may need some more regulations. Often ski resorts struggle to make a profit as it is, so it's gonna be tough sledding.

Brand new snowboarders sometimes can't even get on or off a lift. Mountain safety needs to be updated, to prevent injuries.

I remember a few Winter Olympics ago speed skiing was one of the trial sports
Someone had parked a snow groomer in a blind spot and a competitor hit it at something like 200mph
(There might have been a person on person accident in that event as well)
Being able to see uphill is probably pretty important

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

what in the actual bleep