Team Speed on the Saints (1 Viewer)

[RJ in Lafayette]

Something that is missing on the Saints is team speed, and its absence is glaring. On offense, Sproles has been fantastic, and Graham for a tight end is fast. But the speed of Bush, Meachem and a younger Henderson is missed.

And on defense, even before last night I was struck at how much faster Atlanta's defense is compared to ours. I wonder at times whether we have four 3-4 ends starting on our defensive line. Our linebackers are slow, and Harper has average speed.

 

[jbourque]

The defense is just thinking too much and not playing naturally. New scheme = hesitation.

 

[bclemms]

Something that is missing on the Saints is team speed, and its absence is glaring. On offense, Sproles has been fantastic, and Graham for a tight end is fast. But the speed of Bush, Meachem and a younger Henderson is missed.

And on defense, even before last night I was struck at how much faster Atlanta's defense is compared to ours. I wonder at times whether we have four 3-4 ends starting on our defensive line. Our linebackers are slow, and Harper has average speed.

Greer is a former track star, PRob runs sub 4.4, Jenkins is a 4.5 guy at FS, Will Smith ran a 4.5 once upon a time, Junior and Wilson are both very fast for ends, Sedrick Ellis is quicker than your average DT and at LB we have guys that aren't slow on paper.

Yet when the ball is snapped our defense looks pedestrian compared to other teams. I'd like to think it is because they are thinking too much before reacting because it is a new system but it was the same way last season.

It is almost like there is a magic hormone that our guys are missing which makes them play bigger, faster and stronger when the bright lights are on. Instead it seems like they play slower and less intense than they are on paper.

I have a theory why that is.

When a team is great on one side of the ball but not the other they are quicker to let a player walk on the side they are great. For example, we let Meach, Goodwin, Bush, Nicks and some others go even though we really didn't want to. Then on the other side of the ball we are afraid to let average players walk because we need all the "talent" we can get. We overpay for players like Will Smith and Roman Harper. We are afraid to bring in replacements for guys like Malcolm Jenkins because we are worried about upgrading other positions that are bigger needs. We find 1-2 year stop gaps at positions to get us by because we have the proverbial window constantly closing. Then our offense is just so good that we are never picking very high in the draft. Then when we do pick high in the draft we just haven't been able to get that star player. The next problem we have is the defense as a whole is weak and it makes it more difficult to plug in a younger player like a Junior or Martez because they are "not ready". To top it all off we don't have that leadership on the field or a couple players on the field that just make everyone else around them better like Ray Lewis, Ed Reed or Demarcus Ware.

In 2009 we had those guys in Vilma, Sharper and Will Smith. Smith is now old and just doesn't look or play like the same player. Sharper is long gone and Vilma has spent more time in court and the operating table than he has the field and when he has been on the field the injuries have shown.

 

[St. PJ]

I was VERY surprised they gave Colston the contract. I thought surely they'd pay Meachem a fair price, let Coltston test the market and then match any offer he may get. I love Colston; he's usually dependable, but this is his third contract and he's had AT LEAST 5 knee surgeries.

I can see the wisdom in taking Akiem Hicks, but when the Saints were on the clock I thought for sure they were going to take the TE from ULL. I was extremely upset to see San Diego take him in the 4th. I think the Patriots are ahead of the curve, having two TE/WR types that are match-up nightmares. That's where the Saints need to go. Sproles with Jimmy Graham x2 would be unstoppable (assuming Drew has time).

I am most disappointed with Curtis Lofton and David Hawthorne. I have no clue what's going on at safety, and it appears neither do the safeties. I don't understand letting Tracy Porter walk-- its not as if Denver paid him alot; they just rented him for a year.

I think Joe Morgan, if he can eventually put it together, offers the speed to take the top off the defense.

I also think Drew Brees hurt that development trying to milk every last penny and missing the opportunity to build that chemistry over the off-season. Know why the Saints offense got off to such a fast start last year? Because during the lock-out they put the work in. Drew didn't put that work in with a different WR group, and it shows.

I don't think the defense is slow per se; I just think that they are thinking and not acting instinctual as of yet.

I've not given up on Jenkins yet, and I will always have an affinity for Greer. Will Smith hasn't looked fast since his 3rd year. Ellis is worth having on the roster, but not at 1st round money. No comment on Bunkley yet. This team is transitioning from man principles to zone principles-- it will take time to build trust of knowing where the other guy will be, so I will give the secondary time. It's the linebackers who are driving me nuts, and why aren't the putting Wilson and Gallette in more often on obvious passing downs?

 

[Brennan77]

The defense is just thinking too much and not playing naturally. New scheme = hesitation.

I agree more with this than the idea that we are slow. We aren't lights out fast, but there is some athleticism on the team. The defense is hesitating through a new system. The offense is struggling with a hurt Colston and a concussed Devery. Also, Ingram is faster than he looks, imo. He just hasn't been in the open yet..

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[SaintsW1n]

Something that is missing on the Saints is team speed, and its absence is glaring. On offense, Sproles has been fantastic, and Graham for a tight end is fast. But the speed of Bush, Meachem and a younger Henderson is missed.

And on defense, even before last night I was struck at how much faster Atlanta's defense is compared to ours. I wonder at times whether we have four 3-4 ends starting on our defensive line. Our linebackers are slow, and Harper has average speed.

Agree with the overall sentiment. It's a fairly noticeable dropoff from the past few seasons.

Harper has average speed.

If by "average speed," you mean "devastatingly slow" then I also agree.

 

[King Stilts]

Some very good posts in this thread

 

[Symbiote]

How about Pierre Thomas? I thought he looked great so far.



The defense is transitioning into new schemes and so forth, but at the same time they don't look like they have fully transformed as they are still blitzing and not tackling as effectively. Once again, it takes time. Spags isn't going to cure everything over night, and this team isn't stacked on a level of defensive dominance.

Atlanta's defense looked scary last night but no one is looking at Peyton Manning. He was forcing the ball around when he threw those picks. Denver came into that game wanting to air it out, as Peyton is famous for and you can't always win one dimensional like that. Peyton also isn't working with All Star wide receivers anymore, as he's used to forcing it between two defenders to a guy like Wayne. I'm also a bit disappointed in Atlanta's defense. 3 picks in the first quarter, they did great on turnovers, and then they let the Broncos come back and nearly win.

 

[bclemms]

Being an LSU and Saints fan the idea of team speed is so funny. Year in and year out LSU's defense is regarded as insanely fast. Each year LSU has players that are future 1st round picks but don't end up being first round picks because they are shockingly slow.
Bradie James, Ali Highsmith, Chevis Jackson, Jonathon Zenon, Corey Webster, etc but they play so much faster on the field. Then when you watch LSU play defense it makes you dream about what the Saints could do. LSU plays with so much swagger, confidence and aggression. The Saints are worried about giving up a big play before each snap, LSU is looking to make a big play before each snap. I've watched countless LSU games where the defense has scored more points than the opposing teams offense.

I've also watched many LSU games and thought to myself, too bad LSU doesn't have a Brees and Payton to go with that defense.

The players on LSU's defense can be good football players without being great athletes because they are playing next to players that are probably both. The secondary can be big and slow because they only have to cover guys for a couple seconds. Then each player feeds off each other and plays with superior confidence. They also don't second guess their instincts because if they do make a mistake then they trust the player next to them to make up for it. The Saints defense is a polar opposite of this and has been since 2009.

Fact of the matter is they (offense and defense) are pretty much like two different teams as we've come to realize more by the bounty crap. In the NFL it is particularly difficult to put together two great teams with one salary cap figure. Last season was a prime example. New Orleans, Green Bay, New England and Detroit all threw for over 5000 yards. They all also ranked at the very bottom of most defensive categories. Green Bay has managed to suck on defense despite having two players that are consistently in the DPOY talk and another corner that is pretty dang good. Detroit is oozing talent on defense but can't put it together. New England has basically spent all of their draft picks and a half dozen others on defense but still couldn't do anything.

I have to think that the defenses on great offensive teams also have the tendancy to relax. The Packers or Saints giving up a TD is not nearly as critical as the Browns or Cardinals giving up a TD because the Saints or Packers can make it up quickly where the Browns and Cards can not. These defenses seem to work harder because it is more important for them to prevent the other team from scoring. Of course I don't think it is intentional, just the way it happens.

Also once a defense is exposed and gives up a lot of points it gives the opposing team confidence both in the game and in games coming up. A confident offense going up against a dejected defense is usually an ugly match. This confidence trickles down to the coaches too. An offensive coordinator is going to play looser and more aggressive against a bad defense. Meanwhile a defensive coordinator starts to gamble and plays not to give up big plays instead of trying to dictate tempo.

Yes, I've been very difficult on Spags and will continue to do so. I'm sorry but anytime you rank last in something it is going to be that way. However, I also realize that any defense playing on the same team as a great offense is also behind the 8 ball from the start and playing great defense runs much deeper than just players and schemes. That is why GW had so much success here. The guy is a pschologist that came in here and injected a group of players with confidence and swagger while completely changing the culture on defense.

 

[L.A.Saint!]

In watching the defense more, there are several times where players are FLAT on their feet, playing too far back, or flat out in the wrong place. Besides P Robb dropping 4 potential interceptions over the past two games, makes me want to scream. Steve Smith was wide open on one of his passes and for the life of me I can't understand how he would be uncovered. I don't know if thats a scheme that needs to be picked up or if the defense has deteriorated since the Seattle playoff game. Regardless, I'm hoping Spags and the boys can turn it around... Hell just a few of those caught interceptions would've changed things....

 

[Sean]

The defense is just thinking too much and not playing naturally. New scheme = hesitation.

I don't buy that, if the Falcons with a new DC can look dominant last night then why can't we?? Either we need a new scheme or better players, or both. I'm trying to be patient but no more excuses this week we're going against a traditional offense in the Chiefs, time to put up or shut up. Lets go D!!!

 

[St. PJ]

How about Pierre Thomas? I thought he looked great so far.



The defense is transitioning into new schemes and so forth, but at the same time they don't look like they have fully transformed as they are still blitzing and not tackling as effectively. Once again, it takes time. Spags isn't going to cure everything over night, and this team isn't stacked on a level of defensive dominance.

Atlanta's defense looked scary last night but no one is looking at Peyton Manning. He was forcing the ball around when he threw those picks. Denver came into that game wanting to air it out, as Peyton is famous for and you can't always win one dimensional like that. Peyton also isn't working with All Star wide receivers anymore, as he's used to forcing it between two defenders to a guy like Wayne. I'm also a bit disappointed in Atlanta's defense. 3 picks in the first quarter, they did great on turnovers, and then they let the Broncos come back and nearly win.

Did anyone notice that despite getting 4 turnovers, Atlanta's "great looking" offense only scored 13 points off of turnovers? Or that Manning (in both games) really hasn't had a deep ball? He's never been terribly accurate throwing it deep (less than 25% completion-- Drew's been around 50%), but in the last two games he's either wildly overthrown the deep ball or thrown an interception. Even is passes over 20 yards in the air haven't been terribly accurate. Did you notice after the picks Manning seldom threw the ball over 10 yards? He went straight to dink and dunk.. Translation: Manning isn't Manning yet. He doesn't have his arm back and throws more like Chad Pennington. Atlanta had film, Pittsburgh didn't.

The Saints didn't have any real film on RG3. NOBODY was expecting that. Carolina is able to do the same things, but are more polished with it. If anything, I think this "getting in the hole" has a much bigger effect on the defense than anything... they aren't protecting a lead, and the other team can be as balanced as they wish. The offense looks off, because frankly, while Drew was trying to squeeze every penny he deserves, he wasn't getting chemistry with his WR's in OTA's are getting a jump start like he did last year during the lock-out, and that is VERY noticable.

 

[broccoli60]

Can someone explain how a dozen dropped passes eqaute to the timing's off because Brees missed OTAs? They were drops plain and simple and had nothing to do with OTAs or lack of speed.

 

[porculator]

I was thinking the same thing the other day, particularly after watching the Rams on sunday who have some very very fast players.

But then I thought of Donte Stallworth, Josh Bullocks, Tebucky Jones, Sedrick Hodge, Cie Grant, Derrick Rodgers, Boo Williams, Onome Ojo, Mel Mitchell, etc.

I think our team scouts more based on consistency than talent. If we find a huge talent in a late round, like Graham, we'll take a flyer. But for the most part we are conservative with our high round picks and free agent pickups. We get guys that may not have the huge ceiling, but we know what to expect from them.

 

[1badsailor]

game speed is what counts not 40 yard dash times! A big part of that is people knowing their assignments and trusting what they have seen on film.. straight line speed doesn't add much to a football team if they can't do anything else, see joe morgan.