The man or bear hypothetical (4 Viewers)

[livefromDC]

Was wondering when this stupid arse question would make it here. My wife hit me with this and it didn't end well. I asked if we were just in the woods or were we together in the woods, as in, is the bear or man in the woods and I also happen to be in the woods or are we dropped together in the woods. She said together in the woods. Then I said, "oh then a man, anyone saying anything else is a fricking idiot."
She was appalled and then said, "women are more likely to be assualted or..."
I don't know what the rest was because I said something like I'm more likely to be killed by you than a bear because I regularly spend 0 time with bears either. Women with children are also more likely to step on a lego than be hurt by a bear too.

And that's when it went downhill.

I get the premise and understand the intent. Men are creepy and dangerous and women need to be on guard with every man they encounter. It's a great exercise to contemplate the brutality of man in ambiguous situations. But there's a clear answer answer here if we're being dropped in a clearing together.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

I think I posted that in the bear thread. I'm not certain how to feel about it tho. Women aren't wrong to be wary of men. Heck men aren't wrong to be wary of men. I don't think many who answered bear would hold that position if it actually happened.

The real take away for me is that it's vogue to tear down 'men' without even considering them as individuals since we need them to be disposable.

The conditioning starts early with rhymes about sugar and spice. When a boy is hurt... Rub some dirt on it. Have feelings? You better bottle that sheet up and learn not to show it because women want an alpha male.

Much is made about pressure on girls as they mature. But the same or more pressure in on boys. The difference is nobody forking cares about boys until they need to be locked away or executed because they broke too badly. It's a forked and demoralizing realization.

From my pov as a boy growing up in the 70's, society has gotten the insecure emotionally dysregulated men it made by design or ignorance.

I do like the question tho, because it tells me whether or not to waste my time talking to her. Have fun dating that bear. Hope it brings you some fish.

I've never been more authentically me and no longer even try. If she likes me, she's going to figure out a way to make it clear. I've got too much other sheet to balance in my life without adding hidden signals and hints into my equation. If she can't understand that, she ain't for me.

All you say is true but the message gets way convoluted
I know you’re not saying this specifically but the tl/dr sounds something like ‘hey ladies could you not fear us? We’re working on our selves and y’all’s anxiety about interacting with me is making us feel bad’
The problem on both sides is ‘the patriarchy’ (for lack of a better word)
We call out alpha/beta bs at every instance, it will start to amend

And we’ve been here before- both the 70s and 90s were times when being a man was very much a continuum- but we keep letting regressive nonsense creep back in

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

Was wondering when this stupid arse question would make it here. My wife hit me with this and it didn't end well. I asked if we were just in the woods or were we together in the woods, as in, is the bear or man in the woods and I also happen to be in the woods or are we dropped together in the woods. She said together in the woods. Then I said, "oh then a man, anyone saying anything else is a fricking idiot."
She was appalled and then said, "women are more likely to be assualted or..."
I don't know what the rest was because I said something like I'm more likely to be killed by you than a bear because I regularly spend 0 time with bears either. Women with children are also more likely to step on a lego than be hurt by a bear too.

And that's when it went downhill.

I get the premise and understand the intent. Men are creepy and dangerous and women need to be on guard with every man they encounter. It's a great exercise to contemplate the brutality of man in ambiguous situations. But there's a clear answer answer here if we're being dropped in a clearing together.

I’ve talked about this before, but having taught predominantly women for 20+ years has made one fact profoundly unavoidable- most men have zero clue how much harassment women go through on a daily basis
Starting from 12-13 a woman will likely have dozens of creepy interactions per day - from both strangers and familiar men (uncles, friends dads, teachers, coaches, et al)
Most of those are low level ogling and/or inappropriate comments- but too often it can escalate to real danger
To say nothing of the way too many women who are actually assaulted
In fact the numbers of women opting for the bear might be a similar % to women who have been assaulted by men

 

[Tapxe]

hey ladies could you not fear us? We’re working on our selves and y’all’s anxiety about interacting with me is making us feel bad’

No. I'm past feeling bad. I'm past trying to be Ward Clever and I don't give a sheet what she expects. Treat me like a person with values and emotions and vulnerabilities and I will you. Then we have a chance.

Otherwise I have two much healing from society to do. Therefore, I don't want to have relationships with anyone who thinks like that.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

No. I'm past feeling bad. I'm past trying to be Ward Clever and I don't give a sheet what she expects. Treat me like a person with values and emotions and vulnerabilities and I will you. Then we have a chance.

Otherwise I have two much healing from society to do. Therefore, I don't want to have relationships with anyone who thinks like that.

tbc
Are you saying you don’t want a relationship with women who are wary of men
Or with people who have been conditioned by ‘alpha’ propaganda?
(Or something else?)

 

[Tapxe]

tbc
Are you saying you don’t want a relationship with women who are wary of men
Or with people who have been conditioned by ‘alpha’ propaganda?
(Or something else?)

In saying I don't have time for a woman who is well and truly sold into that belief. Its not red pill or alpha. Its about healthy regulated connection and seeing past that bullshirt.

 

[Madmarsha]

One point of note here is that women choose bear in overwhelming large numbers.

One point of note here as a woman is that I do not want to know these women or spend time with them or, god forbid, have to depend on their ability to discern potential danger sources for my survival. Bear is clearly the wrong answer.

 

[0rion]

I can think off hand about 10 women I'd like to drop into the woods with a bear.

 

[Sun Wukong]

Ask Timothy Treadwell who he'd rather be in the woods with.

 

[Madmarsha]

Ask Timothy Treadwell who he'd rather be in the woods with.

Clearly, for Tim's girlfriend, the answer would be .... NEITHER!

 

[SystemShock]

The real take away for me is that it's vogue to tear down 'men' without even considering them as individuals since we need them to be disposable.

That's not the point of the question, though. It is a crude way to reflect the feelings of insecurity and vulnerability the average woman feels just walking down the street. There are many surveys and studies about that.

Some time ago, there was a video, in which a young woman walks around NYC wearing sweatpants and a t-shirt, while someone else with a hidden camera records male behavior around her; the amount of whistles, cat calls, unwanted approaches, the persistence of some of the approaches... it was overwhelming for me, and I am a man watching the video.

The average man doesn't think about it... I think many men would be surprised by the number of women in their lives who have been victims of sexual harassment, and even raped.

 

[BarBar]

Agreed, I do not want to be in the same area code with a momma bear and her cubs.

We saw a momma and cubs playing while hiking in Yosemite a few years back. Amazing and wondrous to see but it's like just take a mental photo and move on. Dont hang around to become bear lunch

 

[Sun Wukong]

Clearly, for Tim's girlfriend, the answer would be .... NEITHER!

Based on accounts from journals and recordings they made, she did at least have enough sense to be utterly terrified of the bears. Which she was right to feel, since they brutally mauled her to death and partially ate her.

 

[Tapxe]

That's not the point of the question, though

But it is part of the solution. It's the mind set which raised these men to be capable of back breaking labor day in and day out with no regard for their own emotion or feeling which then leads to that kind of behavior.

In other words you reap what you sow. These men you want to blame didn't get healthy guidance on how to treat a lady. It was left to locker room talk and it's widely accepted as harmless.

Only seems it's not. Let's tell those women what we've told those men their whole lives. Suck it up and deal with it. Internalize that pain and suffer thru it day after day because no one cares about how unsafe you feel.

 

[livefromDC]

But it is part of the solution. It's the mind set which raised these men to be capable of back breaking labor day in and day out with no regard for their own emotion or feeling which then leads to that kind of behavior.

In other words you reap what you sow. These men you want to blame didn't get healthy guidance on how to treat a lady. It was left to locker room talk and it's widely accepted as harmless.

Only seems it's not. Let's tell those women what we've told those men their whole lives. Suck it up and deal with it. Internalize that pain and suffer thru it day after day because no one cares about how unsafe you feel.

Passing along trauma is not part of the solution.