Underhill hints at a Ram retirement (3 Viewers)

[oysters]

The way I see it.
Retires Now:
Cap hit increases from 12.29 million to 35.36 million. A 23.07 million increase in his cap cost.
Saints would need to create a lot of space to get under the cap. No future cap hits.
Retire After June 1st:
Cap hit this year stays exactly the same.
Dead Money cap hit 2025 of 23.07 million. A cap savings of 6.02 million.
Retire After June 1st next year:
Cap hit this year stays exactly the same.
Dead Money cap hit 2025 of 11.08 million + 1.2 million base salary (this goes away after June 1st.). Cap savings of 18 million.
Dead Money cap hit 2026 of 11.98 million. No future cap hits

Thank you for this. I knew there would be significant saving if he retired NEXT year but wasn't sure of how much.

 

[kcirdor]

It’s a shame that teams are penalized for early player retirements. There should be some sort of cap waiver i these circumstances.

We aren't penalized because of early retirement. We are penalized for using a loop hole in contracts that allows us to borrow from the future. How can you borrow from the future if the player retires? This is just a small sample of risks you take when you do that to the extreme that the saints did. If we weren't at the limit, then his retirement would only be a minor bump in the road.

 

[SonOfNOLA]

The way I see it.
Retires Now:
Cap hit increases from 12.29 million to 35.36 million. A 23.07 million increase in his cap cost.
Saints would need to create a lot of space to get under the cap. No future cap hits.
Retire After June 1st:
Cap hit this year stays exactly the same.
Dead Money cap hit 2025 of 23.07 million. A cap savings of 6.02 million.
Retire After June 1st next year:
Cap hit this year stays exactly the same.
Dead Money cap hit 2025 of 11.08 million + 1.2 million base salary (this goes away after June 1st.). Cap savings of 18 million.
Dead Money cap hit 2026 of 11.98 million. No future cap hits

The biggest cap benefit can come from Ramczyk retiring after June 1 next year. It’s 5.5M more cap savings than a March restructure, 18M vs 12.5M. But the Saints will have to sit on his 29M cap hit for 3 months while they wait for his retirement until then. Saints won’t see the 18M cap savings right away until after June. They have to restructure other players to fit the 29M ahead of the 2025 league year’s cap compliance.

It’s either restructure Ram for his retirement at the start of the year and take the immediate 12M cap savings to help get under the cap. Or restructure other players to fit Ram’s initial 29M cap hit until 6/1 and take on future dead money from the restructures that allowed the 29M to fit until June ‘25.

A post 6/1 retirement won’t have future dead money from Ram but the other players who are restructured to allow it will leave future dead money. Players that weren’t going to be restructured if Ram restructured at the start of pre-2025 league year. Future dead money left behind either way. I’m not sure they’d prefer to wait that long until June 2025 to get things out of the way.

 

[El Caliente]

What a very Tony Boselli type of career. Came out the gate like a rocket, and got derailed by injuries too soon.

 

[BreesusSaves]

What a very Tony Boselli type of career. Came out the gate like a rocket, and got derailed by injuries too soon.

2017 PFWA All-Rookie team.
2018 Second Team AP All Pro.
2019 First Team AP All Pro.
2020 Second Team AP All Pro.

Healthy Ram was easily the Aaron Donald equivalent of Right Tackles.

 

[Jesse Custer]

The guy was unbelievably productive. But I will say this much, the Saints have been pretty bad at injury prevention, injury assessment, and analytics. They’ve done very well in regards to internal medicine evaluations (see the cancer diagnoses), but I question if a better training team/analytics team would have known that his knee was a ticking time bomb.

Agreed. We seem to have had an awful ortho team for quite some time now.

 

[St. Widge]

We aren't penalized because of early retirement. We are penalized for using a loop hole in contracts that allows us to borrow from the future. How can you borrow from the future if the player retires? This is just a small sample of risks you take when you do that to the extreme that the saints did. If we weren't at the limit, then his retirement would only be a minor bump in the road.

We would have been penalized by his early retirement regardless. And the issue was singing him to a new deal when he had injury issues. I fact, they did not restructure Ram's contract this year the way they usually do so this issue has little to do with the way the Saints normally push money forward.

The dead money is the result of his singing bonus which would happen to any team. Yes, they probably added a void year or two to try to spread out the cap hit, but that was going to hit the cap all at once if he retired regardless of if we added the void years or not.

 

[MG3n2K5]

The biggest cap benefit can come from Ramczyk retiring after June 1 next year. It’s 5.5M more cap savings than a March restructure, 18M vs 12.5M. But the Saints will have to sit on his 29M cap hit for 3 months while they wait for his retirement until then. Saints won’t see the 18M cap savings right away until after June. They have to restructure other players to fit the 29M ahead of the 2025 league year’s cap compliance.

It’s either restructure Ram for his retirement at the start of the year and take the immediate 12M cap savings to help get under the cap. Or restructure other players to fit Ram’s initial 29M cap hit until 6/1 and take on future dead money from the restructures that allowed the 29M to fit until June ‘25.

A post 6/1 retirement won’t have future dead money from Ram but the other players who are restructured to allow it will leave future dead money. Players that weren’t going to be restructured if Ram restructured at the start of pre-2025 league year. Future dead money left behind either way. I’m not sure they’d prefer to wait that long until June 2025 to get things out of the way.

That's why I worded it the way I did. If they go post June 1 next year the first thing that would happen is Ram taking a pay cut to the vet minimum during the off-season (about 1.2 mil) that would stay on the books until June 1st. The rest of his base salary (about 16.8 million) would be off the books immediately.

 

[baarbogast]

There are two “buts” for this rule as well, though, just like in many things in the NFL. If a player retires with time left on their contract and then decides to return to the league later, they don’t become a free agent. Contracts usually count based on a player’s seasons, not just the calendar years. So if the player doesn’t play, they don’t add a season to their contract. This means they would still be under the same team’s control if they decide to return unless that team chooses to cut them.

Additionally, when a player retires, the team can ask for part of the signing bonus back, equal to the parts of the contract that the player didn’t play. This money doesn’t count against the salary cap anymore. An arbitrator usually decides on this. It’s known as the “Barry Sanders Rule” because that’s what happened in his case – he had to give back part of his bonus. The difference now is that there are clear rules written in the CBA to handle this kind of situation.

What happens when an NFL player retires under contract? Does he still get paid?

What you need to know about cuts and retirements, and how they affect a player’s contract in the NFL

en.as.com

 

[baarbogast]

Does anyone know the cost of an injury settlement?

 

[Rouxble]

Does anyone know the cost of an injury settlement?

His $6.5m in cash for this year is fully guaranteed, there is no settlement we can reach to reduce that amount.

 

[sainthood]

Barry Sanders was not injured and just decided to retire because that is what he wanted. I am sure the players association has rules on not allowing teams to retract signing bonuses for players under contract who cannot pass a physical because of on the field related injuries. I would think the team and Ram could negotiate what Ram has to do to still be considered on I.R. for the next two years for cap purposes if Gayle Benson does not want her signing bonus back and Ram just wants to be gone. It makes sense that both sides would rework the deal into bonuses to play the game of Ram for this extended I.R. assuming Ram has no interest in signing with another team and does not violate any union or league rules. You can just have Ram retire June 1 2025 next off season but he stays on the roster on IR all year and the team and Ram agree he can do his "rehab" where ever he wants and does not need to travel with the team or come to the facility which is in effect retirement. For cap purposes every dollar paid to a player has to at some point hit the cap otherwise you don't have a salary cap. The Saints paid Ram his signing bonus so all of that has to be in unless Ram pays part of it back.

 

[El Caliente]

When Calvin Johnson unexpectedly retired the Lions gave him hell regarding his signing bonus money. I doubt we would do such a thing with Ram Jam.

Report: Calvin Johnson turned down Lions' offer of $500,000 a year for 28 hours of work

Calvin Johnson, the Lions wide receiver who is being inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame this weekend, has been at odds with his former team since they exercised their right to force him to pay back $1.6 million of his signing bonus when he retired while still under contract.

www.nbcsports.com

 

[sfidc3]

This truly sucks, if he stays healthy and has a 10 year + career I really think he could have been a HOF level player....ugh.....

 

[Artifactual]

If Ram isn't healthy enough to play when the season opens there are alternatives to retirement. The new league rule now allows a player to be placed on injured reserve Before the season starts and eligible to return after missing a minimum of 4 games. Teams can have up to 8 players return during the year including the playoffs.

If Ram felt like he could play at some point later in the year, even if only the playoffs, this could be a viable option. In that case he wouldn't count against the 53-Man Active Roster until he was designated to return, if at all. The same player can be placed on IR and return multiple times now.

It's also been discussed in NFL circles (as well as a threat here in the past) about Offensive Linemen who are at the end of their careers due to age or various injuries being kept or brought onto an active roster as "situational pass protectors", similar to situational pass rushers. If he had to go into the game on crutches, he'd still be better than some of the Tackles we've seen on skates not even getting a hand on a rusher that's blowing right past them.

In that role a lineman who excells at pass pro but no longer can be an Every Down player can limit practicing and normal reps during the off-season and regular season and can be viewed as the 8th, 9th, or 10th lineman on gamedays who's only expected to play limited snaps in obvious passing down situations. A stud pass protector who's only called on to play a hand full of snaps a game is better than having a backup lineman suited up that under only the worst circumstances would see the field. That could possibly be a role for Ram. He may not be as good as he once was but he could as good once as he ever was, right? Maybe.