So I had conversation with an Nfl official (1 Viewer)

[sfidc3]

The speed of the game has nothing to do with what happened today. Mike Pereira said the league instructs it’s officials to not blow the whistle in situations like today, and Walt Anderson blew the whistle anyway. He’s either incompetent or crooked, and since the league will not hold him accountable, there is no fixing what is obviously broken. It’s clear the league doesn’t think officiating is a problem.

The only why the NFL will act on poor officiating is if the ratings and revenue take a significant drop...other than that....all is well for them....

How are they taking a beating, you arent going to stop sending money their way, and I doubt they care about the "whiny" criticism of Saints fans who talk a big game Monday, but cant stay away on Sunday. Nor do I think they are trifled by the media that will blast them today and have their back tomorrow.

Taking a beating, naw...until above happens it just rolls right off the NFL's back...

The league has some real problems and human frailty can invite bad stuff to happen, but these unfounded, unrealistic conspiracies about deep league plots to manipulate games, teams, and entire seasons are absurd.

I've gone from absurd to unlikely but possible....

 

[SaintJ]

The reason he got so defensive is because he knows the fix was in and it's embarrassing to know that the general public know that your organization is crooked.

+1

 

[mc4saints]

Went to high school with him and officiated high school sports with him

I ran into him Saturday. I assume it was his week off

I asked him to explain the call and what happened during the NFCCG

I have never seen him so animated and defensive. He started by saying that it was a bang bang play. I interrupted trying to say it was not and he got angry. Started sputtering about speaking to Rotart clubs and other groups about this. Made no sense at all. Then he started saying you don’t know how fast things are on the field. And then wanted to blame the NFL and how they are graded. I’ve never seen him like this. He refused to let me talk. Kept saying I needed to listen. I wound up walking away

His whole demeanor was defensive and almost confrontational. Sounded so defensive and rehearsed. I walked away thinking either the league has given them the talking points or the league officials have closed ranks

Well, give him a break. He probably is tired from working his other 60 hours a week job while he does this NFL thing on the side. Maybe the NFL should request some government tax breaks to be able to afford full-time refs.

 

[coceaux]

I know there are some fans who are all-in on this theory but I just don’t see it.

It couldn’t be from Goodell acting unilaterally which means other owners would have to be in on it. Who? How? What about ones who don’t want to go along with it?

These are all ego-driven, successful people, many of whom haven’t seen their own teams win a championship. They’re going to manipulate against their own team’s good fortunes so LA can be handed a Lombardi and find instant success for more media money!? But wait, LA lucked into just such an opportunity and the mystery team owning schemers decided “nah, never mind, we’ll allow the Patriots to win their fifteenthish championship, or whatever, because that’s ultimately better for the league!” I can’t speak for others but next to crappy officiating, the Patriots unrelenting run of success in a perennially inept division is doing its own big part to drive my disinterest.

The league has some real problems and human frailty can invite bad stuff to happen, but these unfounded, unrealistic conspiracies about deep league plots to manipulate games, teams, and entire seasons are absurd.

Competitive rich guys they may be, but they got rich by making lots of money, and expanding their market value is probably more to their motivation.

 

[DavidM]

I've gone from absurd to unlikely but possible....

Many scenarios are possible, however unlikely. Possible and absurd can coexist.

It’s possible I will win the lottery. It would be absurd to plan my retirement on winning the lottery.

 

[SaintJ]

I know there are some fans who are all-in on this theory but I just don’t see it.

It couldn’t be from Goodell acting unilaterally which means other owners would have to be in on it. Who? How? What about ones who don’t want to go along with it?

These are all ego-driven, successful people, many of whom haven’t seen their own teams win a championship. They’re going to manipulate against their own team’s good fortunes so LA can be handed a Lombardi and find instant success for more media money!? But wait, LA lucked into just such an opportunity and the mystery team owning schemers decided “nah, never mind, we’ll allow the Patriots to win their fifteenthish championship, or whatever, because that’s ultimately better for the league!” I can’t speak for others but next to crappy officiating, the Patriots unrelenting run of success in a perennially inept division is doing its own big part to drive my disinterest.

1. The entire NFL has made and is making a massive investment in the L.A. market. In addition to what Kroenke is doing, the league has moved a substantial chunk of NFL Network and (IIRC) some other league aspects out to L.A. The league (and by this I mean a good chunk of the more influential owners) believes that a meaningful L.A. presence will be mission-critical as the game evolves into new arenas of entertainment outside the game itself. Look no further that the new stadia in Dallas, Atlanta and L.A., as well as the fact that L.A./SoCal is also the content and video game capital of the world. This cannot fail, and without local energy around a team, it will look weak. And Angelenos have proved over decades that if you ain't winning, they ain't showing up.

2. Stan Kroenke is now the uber-owner, what Jerry Jones was 20-25 years ago: the guy who came in and took what everybody wanted, and made it his own. For Jones, it was the most valuable franchise. Now, for Kroenke, it's the most valuable market. Everybody circled L.A. for 20+ years, he set up a three-year game plan to ditch St. Louis, put together a coalition of owners, out-manuvered Jones and some others, and now he's the king. His fist is so far up the NFL's butt, I am not sure if he's Tommie Smith or John Carlos.

3. Kraft is too powerful to confront over a Super Bowl, and the Rams never managed to put themselves in a position for any help. Besides, the Rams didn't need to win the Super Bowl, just to be in it. And it may well have been that the controversy over the NFCCG put any additional plans on the shelf until the heat died down.

The league has some real problems and human frailty can invite bad stuff to happen, but these unfounded, unrealistic conspiracies about deep league plots to manipulate games, teams, and entire seasons are absurd.

Now, who's being naive, Kay?

 

[DavidM]

Competitive rich guys they may be, but they got rich by making lots of money, and expanding their market value is probably more to their motivation.

But first you have to get them to agree that LA winning a Super Bowl notably builds market to the extent they care less about preserving and building their own markets.

You know what else might expand the total market? Bolstering the integrity of the game so people aren’t driven to grasp at unlikely plots and left feeling disenfranchised.

 

[sfidc3]

Many scenarios are possible, however unlikely. Possible and absurd can coexist.

It’s possible I will win the lottery. It would be absurd to plan my retirement on winning the lottery.

You took me uber literally....I'm saying there is more than a chance (to put it another way)....

 

[DavidM]

1. The entire NFL has made and is making a massive investment in the L.A. market. In addition to what Kroenke is doing, the league has moved a substantial chunk of NFL Network and (IIRC) some other league aspects out to L.A. The league (and by this I mean a good chunk of the more influential owners) believes that a meaningful L.A. presence will be mission-critical as the game evolves into new arenas of entertainment outside the game itself. Look no further that the new stadia in Dallas, Atlanta and L.A., as well as the fact that L.A./SoCal is also the content and video game capital of the world. This cannot fail, and without local energy around a team, it will look weak. And Angelenos have proved over decades that if you ain't winning, they ain't showing up.

2. Stan Kroenke is now the uber-owner, what Jerry Jones was 20-25 years ago: the guy who came in and took what everybody wanted, and made it his own. For Jones, it was the most valuable franchise. Now, for Kroenke, it's the most valuable market. Everybody circled L.A. for 20+ years, he set up a three-year game plan to ditch St. Louis, put together a coalition of owners, out-manuvered Jones and some others, and now he's the king. His fist is so far up the NFL's butt, I am not sure if he's Tommie Smith or John Carlos.

3. Kraft is too powerful to confront over a Super Bowl, and the Rams never managed to put themselves in a position for any help. Besides, the Rams didn't need to win the Super Bowl, just to be in it. And it may well have been that the controversy over the NFCCG put any additional plans on the shelf until the heat died down.



Now, who's being naive, Kay?

I haven’t argued that the LA market is unimportant and that there isn’t a genuine interest in capitalizing on that to the fullest. I’m also familiar that greed and power drive people to all manners of misdeeds. None of that is, by itself, evidence of a conspiracy to manipulate games, teams, and entire seasons.

Shirley, as an attorney, you can appreciate that conjecture and speculation aren’t evidence.

 

[coceaux]

But first you have to get them to agree that LA winning a Super Bowl notably builds market to the extent they care less about preserving and building their own markets.

You know what else might expand the total market? Bolstering the integrity of the game so people aren’t driven to grasp at unlikely plots and left feeling disenfranchised.

I totally agree with your last statement. Oh, and by the way, I have been appreciating your posts and analysis for many years. Cheers

 

[SaintJ]

I haven’t argued that the LA market is unimportant and that there isn’t a genuine interest in capitalizing on that to the fullest. I’m also familiar that greed and power drive people to all manners of misdeeds. None of that is, by itself, evidence of a conspiracy to manipulate games, teams, and entire seasons.

Shirley, as an attorney, you can appreciate that conjecture and speculation aren’t evidence.

My Unfrozen Cave Man Lawyer response is that while your world confuses and frightens me, one thing I do know is that patterns of behavior substantially inconsistent with previously known and/or reasonably expected patterns of behavior are a perfect example of circumstantial evidence, which is evidence that allows for inferences of other facts, and can be corroborated with other evidence. It is up to the trier of fact to decide how much weight to give it. Have you never seen a single re-run of Perry Mason or Matlock?

And don't call me Shirley.

 

[DavidM]

I totally agree with your last statement. Oh, and by the way, I have been appreciating your posts and analysis for many years. Cheers

My faith in the league is dried up, so I’m probably not as far on some of this as it might seem.

I do think the Saints have undeservedly been caught up in a storm of controversy going back to the bounty sham.

Like how a guy gets caught up in the legal system on something minor until it builds into something more damaging. For all we know, there might be a contingent of officials who hate Payton and that has created a bias. I accept there’s no love lost between Goodell and members of this franchise. I just don’t buy into these oft repeated plots that the “league is never going to let the Saints win” and there’s deliberate wide scale cheating happening, on orders of the league, to help some franchises at the expense of others.

It’s possible to reject those claims and still believe a lot is wrong, and I do.

 

[DavidM]

And don't call me Shirley.

Kay.

 

[SaintJ]

I have never seen him so animated and defensive. He started by saying that it was a bang bang play.

********.

That's the company line and he sounds desperate. The only people who didn't think it was a bang-bang play were the 70,000+ people at the game who weren't referees, and the couple of hundred million people watching the game on television, all of whom new instantly that it was both PI and a hit to the helmet of a completely defenseless WR, the kind of hit that usually results in three or four yellow flags flying at the offender within milliseconds of contact.

Ditch the ************ and never speak to him again. He can't be trusted.

 

[RJ in Lafayette]

Incompetence at a high level with some extraordinarily bad luck, yes. Conspiracy by the league--the league--to ensure a Super Bowl win for the Rams (and was the horrible call in the Houston game part of the plan?), no.

The market valuation of the 32 franchises is perhaps 100 billion dollars. Discovery of a conspiracy would reduce that valuation by, say, 70 billion dollars, assuming survival of the league. And it would involve how many people? The risks are exponentially greater than the benefits. It would be one of the biggest scandals in American history. And it could possibly destroy the greatest sports-entertainment industry model ever created. Again, just look at how many people would have to be involved and what the risks are compared to the benefits, and it simply makes no sense for people worth billions to do something so recklessly stupid. This is akin to someone going to the casino and risking his entire fortune to win a tiny fraction of what he is wagering.