Israel (now broader Mid East discussion)

[GrayMatter78]

Discussion question: What knowledge and understanding do those of you under my current age of 60 have to the Munich massacre of 1972?

I was only 9, avid watcher of the Olympics, I remember it very well albeit with NO frame of reference here as a WASP in the US to the Jewish plight save for having memorized the soundtrack to Fiddler on the Roof and seeing ads for the Time Life books on the Holocaust. Most definitely my first exposure to international terrorism.

Here we are 51 years later. 56 years after the 6 Day War, 52 years after the Yom Kippur War. This is LITERALLY the first time I have dived this deep into this really trying to understand.

Obviously, being 45 and born 6 years after the event took place limited my knowledge on the subject. After reading on it in college, I came around to it similarly to you in that it was a lesson on international terrorism. The 1st Gulf war was my first exposure to war, being the first 'televised' war, as everything was captured on television during that time.

Having near real-time access makes these things so much more difficult to navigate, I imagine, than it did when there was a delay for communication relays.

 

[efil4stnias]

He’s both. He has a presence in Israeli media and he’s close to Netanyahu so it appears like he’s a manipulator on Netanyahu or Israeli government’s behalf through media in some way. Deleting a tweet originally stating IDF bombed a Hamas base in a hospital, to then say a Jihad organization bombed it, looks very disingenuous and deceptive to change the narrative to absolve Israeli’s government.

I heavily sympathize with Palestinian people, primarily women and children, and against the occupation of their land and resources. The reality of this war isn’t consistent with what’s portrayed in US and Israeli’s media. I’m of a humanitarian viewpoint and don’t engage in politics.

Politics, especially in this case, turns into personal attacks, assumptions, and biased groupthink. Thats why I shared media information by itself so it can be viewed on its own. Everything I’ve shared here are anti genocide sentiments from countries’ Foreign Affairs, and pointing out media inconsistencies.

Or maybe he is just a dopey tool who, like so many others, rushed to judgement.

But your use of the term "deep state" immediately disqualifies anything after it. Which is why you removed it.

If you understand where you are pulling info from, and follow up with critical thinking, then you are more prone to finding the truth.

But you seen to keep posting and returning to this tweet as if it is some sort of evidence of a deeper force at play...some "deep state" cabal.

 

[Madmarsha]

The 1st Gulf war was my first exposure to war, being the first 'televised' war, as everything was captured on television during that time.

Yep, the Gulf War was definitely a game changer. Admittedly "fascinating" as you know you were actually watching it happen, but it was still easy to distance yourself because, of course, you weren't there but that just made it easier to sort of trick your brain into thinking it's a video game or a movie.

ETA: The Munich Massacre was more or less played out in real time on TV as it was happening during the live broadcast of an Olympics with the world watching as TV cameramen and sportscasters became "war time" correspondents 20 some years before the Gulf War.

Having near real-time access makes these things so much more difficult to navigate, I imagine, than it did when there was a delay for communication relays.

Yeah, we were having this discussion that despite "video evidence" it's just that much easier to use that video to foment propaganda.

 

[Sailorsaint]

Hmmm…. I think she carries a 3 star Admiral.

USS Mount Whitney heading to Eastern Mediterranean

The ship is underway to support operations in the Eastern Mediterranean Sea, U.S. 6th Fleet said Wednesday.

www.navytimes.com

 

[DavidM]

It’s the video Hananya Naftali’s account used to represent the hospital bombing event. It doesn’t look the same as IDF’s video at all. One has electricity in the background in Naftali’s, while IDF’s video reflects an accurate blacked out environment.

Seems necessary to keep the perspective that while this might tell us something about a certain video clip, or certain source, it doesn't necessarily change the emerging information about the incident; that it appears the hospital was struck by a misfired Hamas rocket. There is a lot of garbage to sift through from all sides - again, with the way Musk is running X-Twitter, it's clear that is by design - so it seems futile to emphasize each instance, except for occasions where there are bigger implications to take away from that. Naftali might have posted something bogus, but that shouldn't call into question all of the other evidence. When you had originally posted "deep state" - it seemed clear to me that you were alleging bigger implications.

 

[Infoman]

My history is fuzzy... but didn't the Palestinian people (obviously not women and children) elect Hamas (a terrorist faction) to govern them in 2006 and have not held an election since? I think that's the case, and I don't think that point is made clear when we talk about the "innocence" of many of the Palestinian residents. (and no, I am not saying they deserve to be collateral damage AT ALL)... But the notion that these people are somehow squeaky clean (and not at least somewhat responsible) in this scenario where they supported, elected, and sheltered a terrorists' organization (that pulled the worst terror OP since 911) to represent them.... seems... odd.

If my recollection (details) of that is off... then my apologies... but I think that's the case.

 

[WhoDatPhan78]

My history is fuzzy... but didn't the Palestinian people (obviously not women and children) elect Hamas (a terrorist faction) to govern them in 2006 and have not held an election since? I think that's the case, and I don't think that point is made clear when we talk about the "innocence" of many of the Palestinian residents. (and no, I am not saying they deserve to be collateral damage AT ALL)... But the notion that these people are somehow squeaky clean (and not at least somewhat responsible) in this scenario where they supported, elected, and sheltered a terrorists' organization (that pulled the worst terror OP since 911) to represent them.... seems... odd.

If my recollection (details) of that is off... then my apologies... but I think that's the case.

80% of the people in Gaza today weren't of voting age when Hamas was elected.

 

[efil4stnias]

The media I shared is from critical thinking and not automatically believing US and Israeli media by default. It’s statements from Saudi Arabia and Spain, a protest of Jewish people, a deleted tweet, and a missile comparison. Information not viewed in the primary media and nothing that should be triggering emotions and becoming personal.

I said deep state exactly as I put it because Hananya Naftali’s a liar and manipulator on behalf of a country’s government, on top of being a tool.

My full post didn’t load with the tweet screenshot. I posted again with the same content to make sure my connection was good and deleted the duplicate.

Thats what I mean by personal attacks or assumptions from politics or bias. I never engaged with you before even on the Saints Super Forum. But you made an assumption that I gotta be someone based on you internally disagreeing with the tweets or how I shared them without words.

Instead of asking in a normal reply what I meant or why there’s no words. You attach deeper force and cabal to it like it’s something deeper to you. I was straightforward at the end of the last reply that I’m anti genocide and do not trust the immediate narrative from more powerful media outlets.

No one uses the term "deep state" loosely.

No one.

It's not a catch all phrase.

And you have posted probably 10 times prior with zero discussion after or even within post, which is a violation. And every post was about how Israel was lying.

They weren't. It wasn't their bomb.

If i remember correctly you even included a tweet from Jackson Hinkle. You may want to look him up too.

 

[Madmarsha]

What is Rashida Talib not going to forget what the President did? What did we do?

 

[gboudx]

What is Rashida Talib not going to forget what the President did? What did we do?

You can find a story on abcnews.com or most any other news website. I’m not posting it because it’s certainly politics.

 

[V Chip]

My history is fuzzy... but didn't the Palestinian people (obviously not women and children) elect Hamas (a terrorist faction) to govern them in 2006 and have not held an election since? I think that's the case, and I don't think that point is made clear when we talk about the "innocence" of many of the Palestinian residents. (and no, I am not saying they deserve to be collateral damage AT ALL)... But the notion that these people are somehow squeaky clean (and not at least somewhat responsible) in this scenario where they supported, elected, and sheltered a terrorists' organization (that pulled the worst terror OP since 911) to represent them.... seems... odd.

If my recollection (details) of that is off... then my apologies... but I think that's the case.

As mentioned, the large majority of 2023 Palestinians were not even of voting age in 2006, and Hamas didn't even win a majority (they had a plurality). That was 17 years ago. I don't think all Palestinians should be held responsible for the election then. But yes, Hamas did win an election at one point.

 

[DaveXA]

What is Rashida Talib not going to forget what the President did? What did we do?

That would mos def be a MAP topic not suitable for discussion here.

 

[Madmarsha]

That would mos def be a MAP topic not suitable for discussion here.

To just answer that question? It should be simple.

 

[Andrus]

This video is fairly convincing...