******* Legal Advice Needed ASAP ******** (1 Viewer)

[hammernnails]

Guys I have a question regarding small claims court.

As I'm sure 99% of you know, I own my own business designing websites. My issue involves a client refusing to pay for a website that I have been working on since January of 2007. I am not going to post the business name, obviously so I'm going to be as specific as I can.

Basically we made a verbal agreement (I will NEVER do that again) that I would design a website for him in exchange for him doing some work at my house. My policy in website design that I relay to all of my clients is that the "design" of the site is the most imporantant aspect of the site and I won't move forward adding information until I get the greenlight from them to do so. I design my sites to where each page looks the same (ie. the buttons are in the same place, etc. just like SR.com) so really there is no need to move forward adding textual information until my client is satisfied with the look of the site. I explained this to this client as I normally do. I have absolutely no problem tweaking a design over and over until the client is 100% satisfied and that was the case with this guy. I sent him a design I came up with on my own because he said he didn't have a particular look he was hoping to go for so he gave me artisitic license to come up with something. I made a design, sent him an email and unfortunately although I have his reply, it doesn't show what he is replying to so I don't know if this will hold up as evidence or not.

Once I got his approval, I duplicated the look into 11 pages, specific to the ones he told me to make and I spent the time copying over images, cleaning them up and adding all the information he had provided for me to add to the pages. I didn't hear from him for a while and when I did contact him he said he wanted to change the look. I honestly believe it was his wife who wanted a different look, but that's a whole different story. I didn't object, but instead proceeded on a new design based on suggestions from his wife and himself.. I even had a picture to use as a model because he had a friend of his come up with a design. I created the design and again was told that they liked the look of the site so I began creating more pages.

Basically I created a 15 page site and every page contains information, except for his frequently asked questions page.. but I wasn't given information from him so I couldn't just make up something to put on there.. he knew that.

My website CLEARLY lists my prices based on the number of pages created for a site... a 15 page site costs $1500.... with hosting it runs just under $2000.

He said he would only pay me $700.

I asked him why and he said that's all he felt he owed me because he talked to some other website people and they said a 6 page website wouldn't cost more than that. That's the point.. a 6 page website is priced at $450 on my site...but he has a 15 page site that I pulled up on my laptop in front of him today. Not to mention 11 pages of a site I wouldn't have created if he hadn't given me the thumbs up so we're talking closer to $3000 with all the work I put into it.

He even offered me $2000 during the process to cover what I had done, but I told him not to worry about it because I took him at his word that he would handle his end of the bargain. He never did ANYTHING on his part.. he did drive out to my house one time. I met with him at his house atleast 4 times to go over the site.

I have a folder containing 1641 files of images, html pages, etc that I made on his site because it was tweaked over and over and over on his request. I have time stamps on all of the files that show when they were modified, etc. I have all of his pages up on my server and can prove that at the time of the "dispute" there were 15 functional pages up.

Basically I can't accept $700 for the amount of work I did and he is refusing to pay a dime more so I would like to take him to small claims court to recoup my money.

I am seeking advice as to whether or not you think I have a "leg to stand on" so to speak and I am "LEGALLY IGNORANT" when it comes to law stuff. I have piles of evidence all documented... he has nothing to go by other than saying he doesn't feel the site is worth more than $700. A portfolio of all my sites is listed on my website so he had over a year to browse through my site to see my work.
Thanks for ANY advice you guys can give me and I'm so sorry this is so long-winded, but I wanted to make sure I gave you as much information as possible.

Please feel free to comment and ask any questions and I'll answer what I can.

because small claims court wont cost you much its worth the effort (bring all youe evidence and represent yourself because a lawyer will take all your "winnings" so do not get a lawyer for this type of case).... and most often the letter threating a lawsuit will get him/her to settle with you.... but I know from experience that you MUST ALWAYS SIGN A CONTRACT... I lost over $5000 on a final payment from a job because he said "i let his dog out of the gate in the back yard..."I had no contract saying how much he owed me because it was all word of mouth and a handshake... a verbal contract is worth NOTHING!!

 

[SuperQuincy]

Umm no offense, but Small claims court is a WASTE of time and more money for me.

I loaned someone money, I had a contract signed and notorized. the person never paid me back, so I took him to small claims court. I had to pay 150 bucks for the hearing and and another 50 to someone to deliver the summons to him. SO I was out another 200 that they tack on to the amount owed if it turns out he is on the hook for owing me money. SO he owed me 700, that went up to 900 with the 150 for the hearing and the guy delivering the summons to him (I forget what the persons title is)

So we go to small claims court I have all my documents, I have the bank withdrawals from my account in the amounts he borrowed, I have the signed contract and I am golden. They order him to pay me the 900 at the rate of 60 dollars a week. I wasn;t pleased about the small increments but whatever I was gonna get my money right. Um no they guy just never paid me, and because it not a criminal case they was nothing the courts could do. Now the guy moved and lives 3 states away and I am not only out the money I lent but also the money for filing the claim and having the guy bring him the summons and they courts do absolutly NOTHING for you as far as making him pay goes.

All I can do is pay another 150 for another hearing and 50 more dollars to a guy to bring him the summons be out another 200 and he just won;t pay that because they do not enforce anything in Small claims. So now I am legally owed 900 and they do nothing to enforce it.

I know it stinks to be out all of your time, but like the others said better off taking the 700 and giving him 700 dollars worth of work, rather than go through all the hassle of small claims where you will have to spend even more money to get whats owed to you, and they basicly don't enforce it. he will just leagally owe you money and can still just not pay and all you can do is spend more money, to get more words out of the legal system, with little to no action.

 

[keepoursaints]

good advice Alex.. thanks!

Obviously ya live and learn, but I'm just curious as to if he has ANY leg to stand on based on all that I have verses him just not wanting to pay the amount once the work was completed when he could have clearly looked at my prices in any time over the year of us working together. It's not like I made up special rates for him that I had hidden in a secret location.

 

[keepoursaints]

Umm no offense, but Small claims court is a WASTE of time and more money for me.

I loaned someone money, I had a contract signed and notorized. the person never paid me back, so I took him to small claims court. I had to pay 150 bucks for the hearing and and another 50 to someone to deliver the summons to him. SO I was out another 200 that they tack on to the amount owed if it turns out he is on the hook for owing me money. SO he owed me 700, that went up to 900 with the 150 for the hearing and the guy delivering the summons to him (I forget what the persons title is)

So we go to small claims court I have all my documents, I have the bank withdrawals from my account in the amounts he borrowed, I have the signed contract and I am golden. They order him to pay me the 900 at the rate of 60 dollars a week. I wasn;t pleased about the small increments but whatever I was gonna get my money right. Um no they guy just never paid me, and because it not a criminal case they was nothing the courts could do. Now the guy moved and lives 3 states away and I am not only out the money I lent but also the money for filing the claim and having the guy bring him the summons and they courts do absolutly NOTHING for you as far as making him pay goes.

All I can do is pay another 150 for another hearing and 50 more dollars to a guy to bring him the summons be out another 200 and he just won;t pay that because they do not enforce anything in Small claims. So now I am legally owed 900 and they do nothing to enforce it.

I know it stinks to be out all of your time, but like the others said better off taking the 700 and giving him 700 dollars worth of work, rather than go through all the hassle of small claims where you will have to spend even more money to get whats owed to you, and they basicly don't enforce it. he will just leagally owe you money and can still just not pay and all you can do is spend more money, to get more words out of the legal system, with little to no action.

Thanks that's good to know! I'm just trying to do as much research as possible before taking any action.

 

[primadox]

No basically he decided to not use my website after it was completely done and told me to send him an invoice of my work so he would pay me and we would be done. He never took 1 step into doing the work on his end and it wasn't my choice to back out of the contract at all. I provided him with the requested invoice and he said he wasn't paying the amount that was quoted based on the very well documented work I did.

Gotcha. So it was a mutual agreement to go ahead and invoice him for the work, but he's refusing to pay the amount on the invoice that he requested. Niiiiiice.

Timely topic...I've got several resume clients who owe me their remaining balance, and they're being slow about paying...seems to be an epidemic right now. I have better things to do with my time than chase them down...

Keep us posted. I'm curious to see how this turns out.

(I got your pm...the answer will be a long one, so I'll get to it after my last client consultation today when I have some more free time! )

 

[Get in the Carr]

Looking at my old business law book it states:

Section 201 of the ucc is the basic Statute of frauds proviision for sales contracts. It require that the contracts for goods costing 500 dollars or more must be in writing to be enforcable.

It is a custom edition book from Southeastern Louisiana so it must appy to Louisiana Law. I would still ask around, just putting that out there. Good luck.

 

[hammernnails]

Umm no offense, but Small claims court is a WASTE of time and more money for me.

I loaned someone money, I had a contract signed and notorized. the person never paid me back, so I took him to small claims court. I had to pay 150 bucks for the hearing and and another 50 to someone to deliver the summons to him. SO I was out another 200 that they tack on to the amount owed if it turns out he is on the hook for owing me money. SO he owed me 700, that went up to 900 with the 150 for the hearing and the guy delivering the summons to him (I forget what the persons title is)

So we go to small claims court I have all my documents, I have the bank withdrawals from my account in the amounts he borrowed, I have the signed contract and I am golden. They order him to pay me the 900 at the rate of 60 dollars a week. I wasn;t pleased about the small increments but whatever I was gonna get my money right. Um no they guy just never paid me, and because it not a criminal case they was nothing the courts could do. Now the guy moved and lives 3 states away and I am not only out the money I lent but also the money for filing the claim and having the guy bring him the summons and they courts do absolutly NOTHING for you as far as making him pay goes.

All I can do is pay another 150 for another hearing and 50 more dollars to a guy to bring him the summons be out another 200 and he just won;t pay that because they do not enforce anything in Small claims. So now I am legally owed 900 and they do nothing to enforce it.

I know it stinks to be out all of your time, but like the others said better off taking the 700 and giving him 700 dollars worth of work, rather than go through all the hassle of small claims where you will have to spend even more money to get whats owed to you, and they basicly don't enforce it. he will just leagally owe you money and can still just not pay and all you can do is spend more money, to get more words out of the legal system, with little to no action.

I am no lawyer but isnt that considered "Contempt of Court" .. I think if he does not follow through on his end of the deal it can/will become criminal.... dont take my word but that is my understanding....

 

[keepoursaints]

Gotcha. So it was a mutual agreement to go ahead and invoice him for the work, but he's refusing to pay the amount on the invoice that he requested. Niiiiiice.

Timely topic...I've got several resume clients who owe me their remaining balance, and they're being slow about paying...seems to be an epidemic right now. I have better things to do with my time than chase them down...

Keep us posted. I'm curious to see how this turns out.

(I got your pm...the answer will be a long one, so I'll get to it after my last client consultation today when I have some more free time! )

Yep it was his idea for me to work up an invoice for the work I did and once he saw the amount (again which was based on my prices listed on my site) he is refusing to pay even close to the amount.

Add to the fact that I got in a wreck on the way to work (I'm ok, but my truck has some damage) it was a swell Wednesday.

As for the PM take your time it's not a big rush.

 

[keepoursaints]

Thanks for the info Breez

I am no lawyer but isnt that considered "Contempt of Court" .. I think if he does not follow through on his end of the deal it can/will become criminal.... dont take my word but that is my understanding....

But did you atleast stay at a Holiday Inn Express?

 

[SuperQuincy]

I am no lawyer but isnt that considered "Contempt of Court" .. I think if he does not follow through on his end of the deal it can/will become criminal.... dont take my word but that is my understanding....

Yeah, but because there is no criminal case involved all I can do is be out more money by getting "a notice to show cause" Which is basicly me paying for another hearing and needed to get someone to deliver the summons and paying him. They will add interest to my current claim. But because its small claims its not like they can arrest him, all they can do is add interest accrude, which he will just simply not pay either. It not like he can be arrested or anything, yeah is credit is shot (but it was before) and he may care later in life when he trys to get a loan on a house or anything, but its not like they can or will arrest him or anything.

He was one of my best friends at the time (obviously we don't get along to well anymore) But basicly the only action I can take is spend more money, and get that added on, get interest added on, and be out another 200 for the filing of the case get some interest so he would owe me say 1500 instead of 900 and he just simply won't pay that either because they do nothing to enforce it. SO he dosen't get that loan for a house when he is 40, but that really dosen't help me at all.


I am just sayin that because you win in small claims and have all the evidence in the world dosen't mean you will get anything out of it because no punishment is enforced. In the end you may just be out more money you were in the first place. Yeah you will get a black mark on his credit, but thats about it.

 

[Jonesy77]

Failure to pay a judgment (in Texas) is not contempt of court. There are ways of applying pressure to make it contempt of court (serving post-judgment discovery that they don't answer). Other ways might be to execute on the judgment, foreclose on a judgment lien, try to obtain a writ of garnishment or a turnover order or the equivalent in your state.

Collection is about 95% of winning a case. That's why settlement is such a viable option.

I personally would just take the $700, but that's because I don't want to take days of work fighting the guy. If you're flush with time, and are interested in the principle of the thing, go for it.

 

[crosswatt]

 

[SuperQuincy]

Failure to pay a judgment (in Texas) is not contempt of court.

Same here in Mass,


I think what I need to do is find a loan shark! Anyone know one, the kind that like pay me you know say 300 - 400 bucks and take his debt of 900 and you know if he dosen't pay them they kill him or somethin.


LOL j/k... this happen years ago anyways.....I betcha the interest has accured tons by now. But I just figured I'd let KOS know my ordeal in small claims and how its not always the best route to go because you end up spending more of your hard earned cash, and its not like he is guarenteed to pay ya.

 

[hammernnails]

Yeah, but because there is no criminal case involved all I can do is be out more money by getting "a notice to show cause" Which is basicly me paying for another hearing and needed to get someone to deliver the summons and paying him. They will add interest to my current claim. But because its small claims its not like they can arrest him, all they can do is add interest accrude, which he will just simply not pay either. It not like he can be arrested or anything, yeah is credit is shot (but it was before) and he may care later in life when he trys to get a loan on a house or anything, but its not like they can or will arrest him or anything.

He was one of my best friends at the time (obviously we don't get along to well anymore) But basicly the only action I can take is spend more money, and get that added on, get interest added on, and be out another 200 for the filing of the case get some interest so he would owe me say 1500 instead of 900 and he just simply won't pay that either because they do nothing to enforce it. SO he dosen't get that loan for a house when he is 40, but that really dosen't help me at all.


I am just sayin that because you win in small claims and have all the evidence in the world dosen't mean you will get anything out of it because no punishment is enforced. In the end you may just be out more money you were in the first place. Yeah you will get a black mark on his credit, but thats about it.

Ahhh... the american justice system.... spill some coffee on your crotch and get MILLIONS.... but the average guy to get back money from a dead beat is out of luck ...I see your point about your situation... sounds like he lost a good friend over $500 bucks...