Saints interested in DeAngelo? (1 Viewer)

[NPs6724]

Like I said, if he's a lackluster CB and will produce lackluster results, he will have no grounds to demand a Clements-like contract. You can't have it both ways. People say he's overrated and not in MM's league, yet they're projecting him to demand an astronomical amount of money. It doesn't add up. I have yet to see a team offer a huge free agent contract to someone based completely on potential.

He has the talent, but fails to use it. Hall's results are lackluster compared to his talent and the amount of money he will be looking for. He goes for highlight reel plays and the few times he gets them, he gets the spotlight. He will demand a huge contract because he has a giant ego and he's a TO-type of guy. Think of it the same way a troubled player who can't stay out of trouble is always given second and third and fourth and fifth chances. Most coaches and GMs have egos bigger than the players' and think they can change or fix guys with potential.

There are few FAs who get contracts based on potential because it's rare to see a guy like Hall hit FA at 25 (which he'll be when he does). Most first-time FAs who fulfill their rookie contract usually either re-up with their team or they are 27+. But look at last year and the number of OL who were getting outrageous contracts and weren't even in the top 20 of their position. LG Derrick Dockery, one of the league leaders in false starts, got a 7-year $49 million contract with $18 million guaranteed from Buffalo last year, 3rd largest in NFL history for a G. You think he is the 3rd-best guard in the NFL today? Is he even the 3rd-best guard in the AFC? Free agents aren't paid based on THEIR talent and production alone, they're paid based on the rest of the talent and production at their position and how many of that position are available. And if that position is one like CB or QB, whoever is #1 and #2 during FA is going to get paid. It's supply and demand, nothing more. Nate Clements isn't the best CB in the NFL, but was paid like it. He has never performed well enough to get an $80-million contract, but that's what he got. Why? He was the best at his position on the market with very few of starter-quality available and he's a CB, who are always in demand. The production doesn't outweigh the cost.

 

[GoldRush26]

Teams aren't built in one year. You scoff at the idea of putting a rookie out there, but all these elite CB's were rookies at some point. CB's don't grow on trees and the reason there are hardly none in FA is because teams draft them and for the most part keep them.

I'm not sure why we are still even argueing over D-Hall. It wouldn't matter if he was the best CB on earth, theres noway in hell the Falcons are trading him to a divisional rival and likewise theres noway we'll just hand our biggest rival a top draft pick.

Rookie DB's that turn into studs within their first couple of years almost always are drafted to teams with already decent defenses, which isn't what we have right now. But it would be typical of a team like the Saints to put a 1st round pick rookie DB in there with no pass rush and have him get destroyed and lose all confidence.

The reason why were talking about D-Hall is because it makes the most sense to go with a veteran defensive back when you're trying to build up a defense. He's been mentioned in trade talks, is better than any free agent defensive back out there, and it's not completely unheard of that division rivals will do business with one another when it fits the needs of both teams. It's business, first and foremost.

 

[BoNcHiE]

Rookie DB's that turn into studs within their first couple of years almost always are drafted to teams with already decent defenses, which isn't what we have right now. But it would be typical of a team like the Saints to put a 1st round pick rookie DB in there with no pass rush and have him get destroyed and lose all confidence.

The reason why were talking about D-Hall is because it makes the most sense to go with a veteran defensive back when you're trying to build up a defense. He's been mentioned in trade talks, is better than any free agent defensive back out there, and it's not completely unheard of that division rivals will do business with one another when it fits the needs of both teams. It's business, first and foremost.

Trading a teams top CB to a division rival for a top draft pick is almost unheard of. Its not going to happen. Inter-divisional trades happen but its usually for lower draft picks and talent. Welker went from Miami to NE last year but he was a RFA so its a little different.

I'm not sure why you think Hall, who was abused this year because of a lack of pass rush, would fair any better in our system, yet you think a rookie would have no chance. And whos to say we don't fix our pass rush? We brought in Oregeron who is one of the best D-line coaches in the league. We will of brought in another DT or two by the time its all said and done, whether through the draft of FA. At the very least we will have a new MLB this year. Our pass rush isn't going to stay bad.

 

[NPs6724]

The reason why were talking about D-Hall is because it makes the most sense to go with a veteran defensive back when you're trying to build up a defense. He's been mentioned in trade talks, is better than any free agent defensive back out there, and it's not completely unheard of that division rivals will do business with one another when it fits the needs of both teams. It's business, first and foremost.

And business is based on spending less than you make. Hall would cost more than he would produce. Getting Hall would lose either our 1st or 2nd round picks and probably more if it's the 2nd round pick and give us another CB who can cause a turnover and get burnt for a TD and also cost us a $60-70 million contract AT LEAST to keep him past next year. That's a hefty price tag for a guy whose not in the top 5 at his position. Would you pay $2500 for a 30-inch TV or $150 for a 25-inch TV?

 

[GoldRush26]

Trading a teams top CB to a division rival for a top draft pick is almost unheard of. Its not going to happen. Inter-divisional trades happen but its usually for lower draft picks and talent. Welker went from Miami to NE last year but he was a RFA so its a little different.

I'm not sure why you think Hall, who was abused this year because of a lack of pass rush, would fair any better in our system, yet you think a rookie would have no chance. And whos to say we don't fix our pass rush? We brought in Oregeron who is one of the best D-line coaches in the league. We will of brought in another DT or two by the time its all said and done, whether through the draft of FA. At the very least we will have a new MLB this year. Our pass rush isn't going to stay bad.

Just the same, I'm not sure why you think a rookie, with 0 hours logged on an NFL field, is a preferable option over Hall. NFL rookie CBs are the biggest crapshoot of any position. Also, we only have so many draft picks. With this scouting department, you're banking on them to draft a cornerback that can start day 1, a DT that can start day 1, a couple of LBs that can start day 1, all the while addressing the offense which needs to be improved as much as people don't want to admit? That's expecting a whole lot coming from a front office that's reluctant to spend money on anyone.

 

[BoNcHiE]

Just the same, I'm not sure why you think a rookie, with 0 hours logged on an NFL field, is a preferable option over Hall. NFL rookie CBs are the biggest crapshoot of any position. Also, we only have so many draft picks. With this scouting department, you're banking on them to draft a cornerback that can start day 1, a DT that can start day 1, a couple of LBs that can start day 1, all the while addressing the offense which needs to be improved as much as people don't want to admit? That's expecting a whole lot coming from a front office that's reluctant to spend money on anyone.

Because I think beyond just this next season. Rookie CB's stuggle sometimes. So what? If thats what it takes to end up with a Trufant, Cromartie, or Samuel then so be it. Hall had a good year 2 years ago and has been average to bad the past 2 years. Hes not near as proven as you give him credit for. He is a project and has serious attitude problems to boot. He may be an "option" but hes not the best option. I'd much rather draft a CB in the first round and start him then trade that for Hall and then pay the guy 60-70 million bucks in 10 months when his contract is up.

The return on 1st round corners in the past 10 years is very good. Its not a crapshoot at all.

 

[GoldRush26]

Because I think beyond just this next season. Rookie CB's stuggle sometimes. So what? If thats what it takes to end up with a Trufant, Cromartie, or Samuel then so be it. Hall had a good year 2 years ago and has been average to bad the past 2 years. Hes not near as proven as you give him credit for. He is a project and has serious attitude problems to boot. He may be an "option" but hes not the best option. I'd much rather draft a CB in the first round and start him then trade that for Hall and then pay the guy 60-70 million bucks in 10 months when his contract is up.

The return on 1st round corners in the past 10 years is very good. Its not a crapshoot at all.

First of all, there's no guarantee that a drafted CB would be good enough to start. Second of all, to get Trufant, Cromartie, or Samuel-like production, you have to have a capable D in the first place. It doesn't work the other way around. Another point is that even when these CBs or any other player pans out, you still have to pay them. Maybe not at the time that you draft them, but at that point you're not going to be getting the production that is commensurate with a top flight cornerback anyway. When they start playing like superstars, the team has to pay them what they're worth. There's not a huge difference what free agents get and what players of the same skill level get in contract extensions from their own teams.

 

[BoNcHiE]

First of all, there's no guarantee that a drafted CB would be good enough to start. Second of all, to get Trufant, Cromartie, or Samuel-like production, you have to have a capable D in the first place. It doesn't work the other way around. Another point is that even when these CBs or any other player pans out, you still have to pay them. Maybe not at the time that you draft them, but at that point you're not going to be getting the production that is commensurate with a top flight cornerback anyway. When they start playing like superstars, the team has to pay them what they're worth. I doubt there's a huge difference what free agents get and what players of the same status get in contract extensions from their own teams.

You have to pay them big money until 4-5 years after you draft them. Not 10 months. And your second sentence makes no sense to the dicussion. In that case trading for Hall would be pointless since we don't have the defense around him to make him successful. Hes proven he can't succeed unless he is in ideal circumstances like Atlanta was in 2005.

And I still stand by the fact that this is a stupid arguement. Hall will not be traded to divison rival. I'll bet anything on it.

 

[GoldRush26]

You have to pay them big money until 4-5 years after you draft them. Not 10 months. And your second sentence makes no sense to the dicussion. In that case trading for Hall would be pointless since we don't have the defense around him to make him successful. Hes proven he can't succeed unless he is in ideal circumstances like Atlanta was in 2005.

And I still stand by the fact that this is a stupid arguement. Hall will not be traded to divison rival. I'll bet anything on it.

My second sentence was referring to rookie CBs. They don't succeed when you throw them in a 30th ranked D. In our situation placing a veteran DB in there would be more ideal, but whatever. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[SuperQuincy]

Have any of use wondered if Hall was so good WHY is he on the trading block in the first place? He is still under contract, and Atlants isn't exactly set thier with Houston and no one behind Hall, yet they are content with shipping him right out of town, he must be awesome.

It not like he is holding out, or even demanding a trade. ATL bites and he would rather move on, but its not like he is pulling strings for anything. They want to unload him now while teams still think they can get something out of him (Even the Pats tried to take a shot a Sully) and we all here knew how it would end. Same with them and Bethal Johnson (tho he wasn't a 1st rounder)


Basicly Hall has worn out his welcome and isn't worth the money he is being paid in ATLANTA and they have NOTHING behind him. I'll take my chance elsewhere, reguardless what teams I like or hate, Hall just isn't that good. And to compare him to MM is like comparing Jay Cutler to Drew Brees. One has been there done that, and still does it well. And the other has shown flashes but we all know (or should that he just isn't there yet)

 

[GoldRush26]

Have any of use wondered if Hall was so good WHY is he on the trading block in the first place? He is still under contract, and Atlants isn't exactly set thier with Houston and no one behind Hall, yet they are content with shipping him right out of town, he must be awesome.

It not like he is holding out, or even demanding a trade. ATL bites and he would rather move on, but its not like he is pulling strings for anything. They want to unload him now while teams still think they can get something out of him (Even the Pats tried to take a shot a Sully) and we all here knew how it would end. Same with them and Bethal Johnson (tho he wasn't a 1st rounder)


Basicly Hall has worn out his welcome and isn't worth the money he is being paid in ATLANTA and they have NOTHING behind him. I'll take my chance elsewhere, reguardless what teams I like or hate, Hall just isn't that good. And to compare him to MM is like comparing Jay Cutler to Drew Brees. One has been there done that, and still does it well. And the other has shown flashes but we all know (or should that he just isn't there yet)

Well all I will say about that is Randy Moss was put on the trading block too.:dunno:

I think Bonchie and I actually make the same points in some of our posts. I think we both agree that CB isn't the most important part of the defense. It's just that I feel if you are going to add a starter in free agency, the draft or through trades, you should be targeting the best available. I think that Hall is the best available, and the Saints should exhaust all efforts to make a deal for him, but if it doesn't happen I won't lose any sleep. Saints need to improve the front 7 first and foremost, and I will be quite upset if they fail to do that.

 

[SuperQuincy]

Well all I will say about that is Randy Moss was put on the trading block too.:dunno:

I think Bonchie and I actually make the same points in some of our posts. I think we both agree that CB isn't the most important part of the defense. It's just that I feel if you are going to add a starter in free agency, the draft or through trades, you should be targeting the best available. I think that Hall is the best available, and the Saints should exhaust all efforts to make a deal for him, but if it doesn't happen I won't lose any sleep. Saints need to improve the front 7 first and foremost, and I will be quite upset if they fail to do that.

Wow that Randy Moss comment says it all about ya, no clue!!!

yeah and he was getting 12 million for umm 600 yds, and you feel that worthy on oaklands end. Keep in mind he was demanding a trade, and would have held out of it wasn't for the money, 12 million per year. Randy Moss is completely different than Hall, and further more has nothing do do with a guy on a contract he signed as a rookie, usually these guys play out thier time and get franchised if any good, or re-upped

I don't agree that Hall is the best available, because he is about as available as Nnamdi, he is not available we would have to trade. Samuel is the best available and he is MUCH better than Hall, and even I think Samuel is overrated. Hall is a decent corner at best and has been pretty poor of late.


EDIT: In my haste I apparentlly can't spell available, I have edited tho

 

[brianw37]

Teams aren't built in one year. You scoff at the idea of putting a rookie out there, but all these elite CB's were rookies at some point. CB's don't grow on trees and the reason there are hardly none in FA is because teams draft them and for the most part keep them.

I'm not sure why we are still even argueing over D-Hall. It wouldn't matter if he was the best CB on earth, theres noway in hell the Falcons are trading him to a divisional rival and likewise theres noway we'll just hand our biggest rival a top draft pick.

thats about the best thing ive read since ive been on this site. idk see why we have to rush, if we build our d thru the draft it will be our best bet/only hope. when is the last time we even landed a big time free agent? we make offers but new orleans is not tops on most top tier fa lists. we have a good system we just need to get the right players and we can accomplish something special here in new orleans. i can wait, like coach p says we've gotta earn it.

 

[brianw37]

Have any of use wondered if Hall was so good WHY is he on the trading block in the first place? He is still under contract, and Atlants isn't exactly set thier with Houston and no one behind Hall, yet they are content with shipping him right out of town, he must be awesome.

It not like he is holding out, or even demanding a trade. ATL bites and he would rather move on, but its not like he is pulling strings for anything. They want to unload him now while teams still think they can get something out of him (Even the Pats tried to take a shot a Sully) and we all here knew how it would end. Same with them and Bethal Johnson (tho he wasn't a 1st rounder)


Basicly Hall has worn out his welcome and isn't worth the money he is being paid in ATLANTA and they have NOTHING behind him. I'll take my chance elsewhere, reguardless what teams I like or hate, Hall just isn't that good. And to compare him to MM is like comparing Jay Cutler to Drew Brees. One has been there done that, and still does it well. And the other has shown flashes but we all know (or should that he just isn't there yet)

hall went public saying that he would never play football for the falcons again. hall is demanding a trade not the other way around. and mm did the same thing in green bay.

having a big ego is good for a cornerback, he has to have that sagger, so that when he does get beat he can recover and play well again. every corner gets beat even champ. d hall had a bad year this year and it was no where near jason davids year or fred thomas's year last year. they were getting toasted by EVERYONE. dhall got beat but it was elite guys doing the damage. at his best hes a probowler, at thier best jd, ft, would not even start on any other team except ours.

i keep hearing people say how much money it will cost to bring in players. does it really matter none of us have to pay that money, and the cap get larger and larger every coulpe of years. im not saying we should overspend for a player but the flea market approach just havent been working for us lately. dhall would be a huge upgrade for our team. teamed with a healthy mm and an improved pass rush wed have a top ten d.

jay culter to drew brees? jay hasnt proven anything yet. hall has been to probowls and is consided by most as a top coverguy. drew brees is in the top 5 qb right now, mm is not a top 5 cornerback. sorry bro thats not a very good comparison.