N/S The Minnesota Vikings’ competitiveness (1 Viewer)

[Saint KayBee]

There’s a multi-part series by Jon Bois that addresses their long-term success.

 

[St.Dan]

Good question.

I think a couple factors have played out, but it's not always consistent.

We had a couple decent QB's. Tarkenton, Tommy Kramer/Wade Wilson, then Kirk.
We've had a lot of years with bad QB play, but in those years we had Adrian Peterson and generally sound defenses.

I think our coaches have generally been good in choosing a style of football and staying consistent in that.
I think there have been very few years we've had "great" teams. Usually due to QB not being a true top notch guy or defense not being dominating. These things crack in the playoffs. (Keenum in 2017. Defense in 2009. Defense in 1998. Defense in 2000).

Our two truly great teams were 1998 and 2009.
The 1998 defense was never very good but was covered up because we forced teams to go one dimensional against us with early leads.
The 2009 team was probably the soundest all around.
Our 1987 team was a great defense, but okay offense.

We do seem to pivot off stars when it's time.
Adrian Peterson. Randy Moss. Culpepper. Kirk Cousins. Stefon Diggs.

We in the Who Dat Nation have some of our fandom lineage through that 1987 team, as they spanked us in the wild card round in our first-ever playoff game. Then, the following week, they upset the 49ers in Candlestick.

I'd say that 1987 offense was a bit better than just "okay" for its time, with better overall team speed on both sides of the ball than Mora's bunch that year. The Vikes lost all three replacement games (games played by the "scabs" while the regular players were on strike), which skewed that final record downward. The "regular" Vikes were 8-4 and likely would've seriously challenged that era's Bears for the division title had it not been for the strike. And I'd venture to say that from '87 through '89, Anthony Carter was every bit Jerry Rice's equal as an elite receiver.

If memory serves, y'all were a dropped pass by Darrin Nelson inside the 1-yard line in the NFC title game vs. the Redskins from having a fresh set of downs with about 30 seconds to play?

 

[St. Geezy]

We in the Who Dat Nation have some of our fandom lineage through that 1987 team, as they spanked us in the wild card round in our first-ever playoff game.

I'd say that 1987 offense was a bit better than just "okay" for its time, with better overall team speed on both sides of the ball than Mora's bunch that year. The Vikes lost all three replacement games (games played by the "scabs" while the regular players were on strike), which skewed that final record downward. The "regular" Vikes were 8-4 and likely would've seriously challenged that era's Bears for the division title had it not been for the strike. And I'd venture to say that from '87 through '89, Anthony Carter was every bit Jerry Rice's equal as an elite receiver.

If memory serves, y'all were a dropped pass by Darrin Nelson inside the 1-yard line in the NFC title game vs. the Redskins from having a fresh set of downs with about 30 seconds to play?

I thought the same thing when I read his post. I was only in kindergarten or first grade at the time, but that 1987 season was my first full season watching, and I had that game and that entire season on VHS and probably watched it all at least 10 times growing up, including the heartbreaking end. I actually still have the tapes, just don’t have anything to play them on and the tape would probably pop even if I did at this point. lol

That Vikings offense was really good IMO; and you’re right, Anthony Carter was a beast, and he may very well be on the Mount Rushmore of “Hall of Very Good” players that didn’t quite do enough to get to Canton.

24.3 YPR that year, 922 yards total, and that was in a strike season in which he only played 12 games.

Baller.

 

[Saintcd]

What “bill” has come due? All we have done is invest in the present with future dollars, and now, after investing wrong on a big ticket item along with drafting poorly, we are rolling it back. This isn’t much different than what teams with “healthy”’caps do when they invest poorly.

Bottom line is we have sucked at player evaluation at the college scouting level especially, and have had absurd bad luck with injuries with the guys that actually ARE good.

There is this wild misconception that our depth is a problem because of our cap, but our financial commitment at a depth level are on par with league average; we just have spent on the wrong people, had a couple of OL retire, drafted the wrong people, and have too much depth on the field all at once; no team survives that no matter what their financial ledger style is.

Yes, pass me what you’re smoking. the saints use the payday loan approach, always getting paid a season early and only hoping their salary goes up next year to cover it. And the debt keeps getting bigger. No money to sign quality depth, just bargain basement and udfa players.

Bad drafting is a contributing factor is some cases, but the lack of available money at free agency lead the saints to never sign a difference maker at any skill position, not a pass rusher, lineman on either side of the ball or true #1 WR or TE. So I’ll gladly pay you next season for a hamburger today approach that no other teams uses. With the way the nfl is a copycat league says everything needed to know.

We’ll both die on this hill.

 

[St. Geezy]

Yes, pass me what you’re smoking. the saints use the payday loan approach, always getting paid a season early and only hoping their salary goes up next year to cover it. And the debt keeps getting bigger. No money to sign quality depth, just bargain basement and udfa players.

Bad drafting is a contributing factor is some cases, but the lack of available money at free agency lead the saints to never sign a difference maker at any skill position, not a pass rusher, lineman on either side of the ball or true #1 WR or TE. So I’ll gladly pay you next season for a hamburger today approach that no other teams uses. With the way the nfl is a copycat league says everything needed to know.

We’ll both die on this hill.

Someday someone is going to actually show me examples of teams that have spent this enormous wealth on depth pieces that everyone keeps talking about or how the rest of the league's depth budget is significantly greater than ours.

Of course our depth looks bad...it's all on the field at the same time, and our drafting of cheap talent has been horrendous. Virtually everyone's depth consists of mostly minimal salary guys, a small handful of higher paid guys kind of like we have, along with drafted developmental players/understudies, and UDFAs.

Ours is just more exposed and on the field currently all at once, making it appear that much more awful.

I will admit it would probably be nice to have a more expensive backup QB, but how much of that was just a personnel choice after recently drafting two guys you liked as opposed to an inability to add a more expensive guy?

 

[Hubig]

The mentality that existed on airline drive before this season began. There was a massive delusional problem that has to of been dispelled at the end of next week. This team's roster is devoid of young talent, there was nothing you could point to over the last 7 weeks that says you have a young core you can build around. I really hope the answer to this season to the front office is doubling down on injuries and not coming to reality.

 

[VikesFan2017]

We in the Who Dat Nation have some of our fandom lineage through that 1987 team, as they spanked us in the wild card round in our first-ever playoff game. Then, the following week, they upset the 49ers in Candlestick.

I'd say that 1987 offense was a bit better than just "okay" for its time, with better overall team speed on both sides of the ball than Mora's bunch that year. The Vikes lost all three replacement games (games played by the "scabs" while the regular players were on strike), which skewed that final record downward. The "regular" Vikes were 8-4 and likely would've seriously challenged that era's Bears for the division title had it not been for the strike. And I'd venture to say that from '87 through '89, Anthony Carter was every bit Jerry Rice's equal as an elite receiver.

If memory serves, y'all were a dropped pass by Darrin Nelson inside the 1-yard line in the NFC title game vs. the Redskins from having a fresh set of downs with about 30 seconds to play?

You recalled that better than I can recite it.
True, that offense had some decent weapons. (Evidently we were around 8thfor TD's scored in 1987).
Anthony Carter being the biggest game breaker, but that defense was literally fun to watch. We joked during that season for the offense to hurry up and get off the field so we could watch the defense play.

The Darrin Nelson drop lives in our memories. Evidently he was playing with a broken wrist which probably didn't help. That was my first true memory of a Vikings NFC Championship game. Somewhere in this form I detailed each of these and mentioned how the 1987 team a team that could best resemble a "first crush".

The 1998 team was the team we were going to marry and she left us at the alter.

I remember that win over the Saints that year in your first playoff game well. I was at a Christmas party at my uncles house and we were watching in the garage. We as Minnesotans felt so jaded because the pregame shows seemed to only talk about the Saints and how it was their first playoff appearance.

That team was better, like you said, than the 8-7 record because of the scab players. Our GM at the time was hoping for some reason our players wouldn't strike if he didn't assemble a team and he did a bad job assembling the strike team.

 

[VikesFan2017]

A separate note.
We have largely SUCKED at drafting with our new GM.
We've got some good players from the prior GM yet and we made some good free agent acquisitions, and hit a good match with Darnold and our coach being his QB whisperer.

I think the other thing that has worked is we have solid WR's. We've almost always had a VERY GOOD wr with at least another good WR.

Anthony Carter and Hassan Jones
Anthony Carter and Cris Carter
Cris Carter and Jake Reed
Cris Carter, Jake Reed, Randy Moss.
Then after Moss we stunk a bit, but then Sidney Rice and Percy Harvin
Then Stephon Diggs and Thielen.
Then JJ with Thielen.
Now JJ with Jordan Addison

Addison was a good pick from the new GM.