Rebuilding strategy, forty-niners or saints?

[guillermo]

We are watching two different strategies right now on rebuilding.

San Francisco have lost 11 starters, considering they knew to rejuvenate their roster. They also need a big chunk of money to pay for their young franchise quarterback. They are not going to be competitive for the next two years, but they are willing to accept this.

New Orleans is riding the wave of the salary cap. They were not able to release Derek Carr because they think he is the best option to build around, and also because of cap consequences. They also decided to extend veteran Demario Davis and other core players. Finally, they extended Chase Young and Juwan Johnson to what we may consider overpaid contracts, but losing them would have made holes on our current cap structure.

Both teams will arrive to cleaner caps (I hope) in a year or two.

Two different approaches, re-building by destruction or by continuity.

At the end, the team that drafts better will come out better.

An interesting comparison case to follow.

 

[WhoDat?DrewDat]

Patriots vs Saints is another one.

Both moved on from their all time great QBs and choose two completely different directions.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

We are watching two different strategies right now on rebuilding.

San Francisco have lost 11 starters, considering they knew to rejuvenate their roster. They also need a big chunk of money to pay for their young franchise quarterback. They are not going to be competitive for the next two years, but they are willing to accept this.

New Orleans is riding the wave of the salary cap. They were not able to release Derek Carr because they think he is the best option to build around, and also because of cap consequences. They also decided to extend veteran Demario Davis and other core players. Finally, they extended Chase Young and Juwan Johnson to what we may consider overpaid contracts, but losing them would have made holes on our current cap structure.

Both teams will arrive to cleaner caps (I hope) in a year or two.

Two different approaches, re-building by destruction or by continuity.

At the end, the team that drafts better will come out better.

An interesting comparison case to follow.

I think it depends on your core and several other factors.

Because our core was mostly veterans over the age of 30, selling to them wasted years on careers that have already extended past normal shelf lives is borderline disrespectful. Focusing on winning because of the core of that lockeroom is important. Yet, the Saints are also in a corner due to how they handled the cap so they almost have to do it as well because it doesn't make fiscal sense to still have to pay players while they are on another team. Might as well keep them...

You also have to consider the state of our division which is still conducive to winnning it. For example the NFC West produced 34 wins. The NFC South 23 wins. For comparison the NFC North produced 45 wins, the AFC South 25.

The Saints can win their weak division and should be aiming to. The 49ers likely don't see a path to contending right away, so tearing it down makes more sense.

 

[HouseCall]

I think it depends on your core. Because our core was mostly veterans over the age of 30, selling to them wasted years on careers that have already extended past normal shelf lives is borderline disrespectful. Focusing on winning because of the core of that lockeroom is important.

W/ that being said....the Saints are also in a corner due to how they handled the cap so they almost have to do it as well because it doesn't make fiscal sense to still have to pay players while they are on another team. Might as well keep them.

I agree with all of this.

The Niners, at their core, are a year removed from a Super Bowl appearance - so conventional wisdom implies that they are in a much better position to rebound from a significant rebuild.

The Saints are definitely overpaying for some aging player providing diminished returns, but they were on the hook for most of them anyway, so why not just shift the burden created by the convoluted cap management system and see what you get from them as you try and retool via the draft and mid-tier free agency?

 

[TribuneUK]

Patriots vs Saints is another one.

Both moved on from their all time great QBs and choose two completely different directions.

Not sure that's true. The Pats tried a retread vet QB first (Cam Newton) before eventually drafting two first round QBs. Both attempted to keep rolling with a retread, the Pats timeline to a high draft pick (or two) at the position was just accelerated compared to ours

 

[St.Dan]

You also have to factor in the personalities of the ownership of the above-mentioned teams, how much loyalty is regarded within those organizations, those kinds of things.

The NFC South being more winnable for a mid-to-slippin' franchise like our Saints is definitely a real thing. The Rams were the only solid team left standing out West last season, but the Seahawks are closer to being competitive again than anyone in the South.

Granted, we'll have some good draftees to add to the mix, with whomever we get at 9 and in the other rounds. But overall, the pressure is indeed on Moore to get more out of Allen's old players than Allen did. He'll have more of them on hand than many of us wanted him to have.

 

[kcirdor]

All i know is when Aaron Rodgers signs with the the Vikings. Put the house on the Saints winning the superbowl.

 

[WhoDat?DrewDat]

Not sure that's true. The Pats tried a retread vet QB first (Cam Newton) before eventually drafting two first round QBs. Both attempted to keep rolling with a retread, the Pats timeline to a high draft pick (or two) at the position was just accelerated compared to ours

LOL Cam was just a stop gap for them he was never going to be their serious QB of the future.

They tried Mac who ended up failing and back to square one and tanked for Maye/whoever they pick at 4. They cleared their cap space out and where pretty active during FA.

Two completely different strategies it'll be interesting to see how it works out for both teams.

 

[St. Geezy]

Not sure that's true. The Pats tried a retread vet QB first (Cam Newton) before eventually drafting two first round QBs. Both attempted to keep rolling with a retread, the Pats timeline to a high draft pick (or two) at the position was just accelerated compared to ours

Yep. I’m also not sure the Patriots’ approach was even intentional. It wasn’t some sort of strategy, they just sucked.

They accidentally stumbled into being horrible by a long run of bad drafting and not being able to attract many free agents, and this started even when Brady was there; he just helped mask it.

 

[fishing4food]

The draft is the Saints only option left to get back on track. Don';t think we'll ever find a FA like Drew again. Those only come once in a lifetime. Our old players can contribute but they're limited. I hope our organization gets it right in next month's draft.

 

[meily]

We are watching two different strategies right now on rebuilding.

San Francisco have lost 11 starters, considering they knew to rejuvenate their roster. They also need a big chunk of money to pay for their young franchise quarterback. They are not going to be competitive for the next two years, but they are willing to accept this.

New Orleans is riding the wave of the salary cap. They were not able to release Derek Carr because they think he is the best option to build around, and also because of cap consequences. They also decided to extend veteran Demario Davis and other core players. Finally, they extended Chase Young and Juwan Johnson to what we may consider overpaid contracts, but losing them would have made holes on our current cap structure.

Both teams will arrive to cleaner caps (I hope) in a year or two.

Two different approaches, re-building by destruction or by continuity.

At the end, the team that drafts better will come out better.

An interesting comparison case to follow.

These team are all doing to the samething, the 49ers are riding the wave of the salary cap just like the Saints, that is why they are dumping contracts in anticipation of giving big money to their QB, they are no different than the saints or any other team in this league.

We have to stop this narrative that the Saints are the only team managing a fluctuating cap and big salaries year in and year out.

 

[St. Widge]

Not sure that's true. The Pats tried a retread vet QB first (Cam Newton) before eventually drafting two first round QBs. Both attempted to keep rolling with a retread, the Pats timeline to a high draft pick (or two) at the position was just accelerated compared to ours

Yep. The Pats tried to keep it rolling with Mac Jones and Cam. But it all fell apart because Bill wasn't as good at drafting as some thought and they no longer had Brady. They eventually reached rock bottom, but they didn't do it on purpose. Saints and Pats are at about the same point post HoF QB, we will see who gets there and if the Saints can rebound from last year and we will see if all the cap money the Pats spent results in a good team or they end up like the Jaguars a few years ago that spent a lot of money for very few wins and are starting over again.

 

[DerrickB]

 

[St. Widge]

LOL Cam was just a stop gap for them he was never going to be their serious QB of the future.

They tried Mac who ended up failing and back to square one and tanked for Maye/whoever they pick at 4. They cleared their cap space out and where pretty active during FA.

Two completely different strategies it'll be interesting to see how it works out for both teams.

Of course Cam wasn't the QB of the future, but they were trying to get a winning season and a playoff appearance with him. So it wasn't an attempt to tank.

Frankly, NFL teams just don't tank. The NFL is just different than the NBA or MLB. The only team I recall that truly decided to tank was the Colts who chose to "suck for Luck", but that ended up not working because the terrible team they had after they drafted Luck ended up getting him hurt and causing him to retire early. Now they are back in hell trying to find a QB and taking shots on guys that were never going to make it.

If an NFL team ends up being bad and getting a high draft pick it's because they made bad decisions that lead to them sucking, not because they chose to lose games.