A worry about Rizzi in game management (1 Viewer)

[DSnfla]

First and foremost, you have to be able to score points, but after the first 2 games, the offense has produced 12, 24, 13, 27, 10, 8, 22, and 20 respectively (and the 27 points, IIRC, there was punt return for a TD in that game?)

Also, seems the Saints can't run the ball against decent defenses.

Against the Eagles - 89 yards.
Against KC - 46 yards.
Against Tampa - 81 yards.
Against Denver - 97 yards.

That's not that much different than under Carmichael (and I think Carmichael did better last year).

Can you understand the phrase "Decimated by injuries" NO and I mean NO OC would have done a much better job under those circumstances. SMH

 

[OldTimeGamer1966]

I can definitely respect that.

Def a possibility i can be over analyzing.
I have to admit sometimes I can do that

We'll just have to wait and see

Nothing wrong with analyzing or even overanalyzing anything. I can at times do the same thing. This time I just took it for what it was worth is all just a hard-fought win which was such a nice thing after 7 weeks of losing. With the way this season has gone any win will be nice.

I think if Rizzi can win 5 more games he will be strongly considered for head coach, but I agree we will have to wait and see how it turns out. This game was always going to be a high energy overachieving game. Let's see if he can keep the troops going that way for here on out.

 

[town123]

I liked the decision to go for it on 4th and goal on the first drive, even if it came up empty.

There was a 4th and 1 later in the game, just past midfield, and Rizzi punted. I didn't like that.

I didn't like throwing on 3rd down after the 2 minute warning, but that play would have worked if not for a once-in-maybe-300 plays where Alvin Kamara gets just a little ahead of himself and takes his eyes off the ball too soon. That would have been a touchdown, and the only way it wouldn't is if AK decided to give himself up so the Saints could just kneel.

Since the topic of this thread is Rizzi's in game mgmt, I like what you're saying and can still agree with another poster who said that now that it's all on Rizzi, he could understand why his gonads aren't as big when everyone is pointing at you after every decision.

I didn't like the his punt decision either since clock mgmt, the score or field position shouldn't have been a concern. The AK non-catch was a pretty good call which is a hats off to KK.

 

[WhoDat?DrewDat]

Teams that fire their coach don't fire their coach because they are SB contenders.

Cap situation can be cleared in a year or two. I don't know that any team hires a coach on a 1 year plan.

All of their best players are past their prime?
The Saints have 4-5 players who are over 30. I guess people will argue DD and Jordan are "past their prime", but they still can play. Then you got Taysom and Carr.

Little to none good young players?
Breese is in his 2nd year.
Fuaga is a rookie.
Taylor, Turner, Werner, are 25
McCoy, Granderson are 27.
Shaheed is 26.
Miller, Kool-Aid are 22.
Adebo, Tuner, Ruiz are 25.
Foskey is 24.
The Saints even have a good kicker in Grupe, 26.
These guys may not be All-Pros, but certainly you can do worse, much worse.

QB situation: Carr is no Drew Brees, but he isn't Jeff George either.

0 offensive weapons besides Kamara: Taysom? Shaheed? MVS came off the street and caught everything thrown his way long and short. Saints got a good prospect in Holker at TE.

Name a team that has "great" depth. Is it depth, or is it coaching that puts whoever is on the field in the best position to make plays?



Again, 99% of all new HC hires inherit a team that fired its coach, and the coach wasn't fired because he was winning SBs.

1. Our cap cannot be cleared in one year. This a a two year processes at an absolute minimum. Nick has an entire episode detailing it.

2. Maybe not all but most of our best players are past their prime. AK, DD, Jordan, Mathieu, Hill, are all past their prime years.

3.Bresee - Has been horrible this year. Bottom 10 iDL in the entire league against the run and run stop %. He's also a career low in pass rush win rate, pressure %, and QB hit%. It has been a horrible year for Bresee and this is from someone who is high on him.

Fuaga - a rookie and he looks promising.

Taylor - Taylor once again leads our entire team in yards given up. He's allowing a PUTRID 62.5% completion % (career high), career high in missed tackles (23), career high in missed tackle % (28%). He is by far the most overrated Saint by our fanbase.

Payton has been nonexistent.

Werner is good when he plays.

McCoy is by far our best player under 30.

Shaheed - WR2 at best most likely WR3 on a good team. He's always been injured and best year is 719 yards. Nice piece but far from moving the needle

Miller - talented but never plays.

Kool-Aid - looks solid but hasn't played enough snaps.

Adebo is a FA

Ruiz is good at times

Foskey is just awful.

The saints are just not an attractive HC job right now. Will we find someone? absolutely.

Will it be a top tier candidate like Ben? absolutely not

 

[SystemShock]

1. Our cap cannot be cleared in one year. This a a two year processes at an absolute minimum. Nick has an entire episode detailing it.

2. Maybe not all but most of our best players are past their prime. AK, DD, Jordan, Mathieu, Hill, are all past their prime years.

3.Bresee - Has been horrible this year. Bottom 10 iDL in the entire league against the run and run stop %. He's also a career low in pass rush win rate, pressure %, and QB hit%. It has been a horrible year for Bresee and this is from someone who is high on him.

Fuaga - a rookie and he looks promising.

Taylor - Taylor once again leads our entire team in yards given up. He's allowing a PUTRID 62.5% completion % (career high), career high in missed tackles (23), career high in missed tackle % (28%). He is by far the most overrated Saint by our fanbase.

Payton has been nonexistent.

Werner is good when he plays.

McCoy is by far our best player under 30.

Shaheed - WR2 at best most likely WR3 on a good team. He's always been injured and best year is 719 yards. Nice piece but far from moving the needle

Miller - talented but never plays.

Kool-Aid - looks solid but hasn't played enough snaps.

Adebo is a FA

Ruiz is good at times

Foskey is just awful.

The saints are just not an attractive HC job right now. Will we find someone? absolutely.

Will it be a top tier candidate like Ben? absolutely not

So what exactly do you mean by "their prime"? Just age? Kamara is 29, and he's easily better than at least 2/3rs of the starting RBs in the league, easily has 2 more years in him. Hill is 34, and still a weapon in all of his roles, easily has 2 more years in him.

The players you listed.... the Saints just fired the HC. Could it be they could do better with better coaching? Do you think a new HC looks at those players and thinks to himself "if Dennis Allen couldn't develop them, I surely can't" ?

Cap situation, I leave that to the people who work the cap. Every year people complain about "cap hell", and every year players are signed, cap is manipulated...

I get why many are in love with Ben Johnson... but his success with the Lions as a OC the last year and a half doesn't guarantee he'll be a good HC, or that he'll be able to replicate what he's doing with the Lions with any other team. But even then, if you give him a better hiring package than other teams, he'll come to N.O. If he decides to leave the Lions, he surely is not going to land on a contender.

 

[Cajun Mike]

This sounds like a witch hunt

 

[WhoDat6278]

Only 32 such jobs in the entire world. And money talks.

No one really knows how Rizzi will turn out. We'll see.

Agree, the whole “unattractive job so we’ll struggle to get anyone good” talking point is demonstrably false and being negative for the sake of being negative.

As well as there only being 32 of these jobs (with just a handful available during any one offseason) it all comes down to money and guarantees. Pay someone enough money over enough time and they’ll take the job. Also, we have a GM who basically refuses to fire his HC hires.

 

[DSnfla]

1. Our cap cannot be cleared in one year. This a a two year processes at an absolute minimum. Nick has an entire episode detailing it.

2. Maybe not all but most of our best players are past their prime. AK, DD, Jordan, Mathieu, Hill, are all past their prime years.

3.Bresee - Has been horrible this year. Bottom 10 iDL in the entire league against the run and run stop %. He's also a career low in pass rush win rate, pressure %, and QB hit%. It has been a horrible year for Bresee and this is from someone who is high on him.

Fuaga - a rookie and he looks promising.

Taylor - Taylor once again leads our entire team in yards given up. He's allowing a PUTRID 62.5% completion % (career high), career high in missed tackles (23), career high in missed tackle % (28%). He is by far the most overrated Saint by our fanbase.

Payton has been nonexistent.

Werner is good when he plays.

McCoy is by far our best player under 30.

Shaheed - WR2 at best most likely WR3 on a good team. He's always been injured and best year is 719 yards. Nice piece but far from moving the needle

Miller - talented but never plays.

Kool-Aid - looks solid but hasn't played enough snaps.

Adebo is a FA

Ruiz is good at times

Foskey is just awful.

The saints are just not an attractive HC job right now. Will we find someone? absolutely.

Will it be a top tier candidate like Ben? absolutely not

1, We will never be a team that has 30+ mil in cap space. That's for teams that are bad or have QBs on a rookie deal, or in the Lions case almost all of their best players on rookie deals . Also look at the teams with a lot of cap space and see how many FAs there are that they have to resign.
2, Being past their prime does not mean that they are not playing at a high level. Yes Cam should probably retire but maybe he could be used better. AK still has 2yrs at a very high level he's running the ball better than he has in the last 3 yrs. DD will start to decline but has at least 1 more very good yr same with Mathieu , he had the game sealing pick . TH while is 34 he has not played a lot yrs in the NFL so it's not an overused 34

3, Bresse was never great at run-stopping He has 4 sacks so far and he had 4.5 all last yr and we have 7 games left and he's on par to pass his comb and solo tackles from last yr

Taylor , you are just way off AT is one of the better slot guys in the league and he just switched to outside maybe give him a min to get used to the change
Turner, He's been healthy to start and he's had some flashes , he played very well on Sun. let's see how the rest of the season plays out for him

Shaheed , Where did anyone say RS was a #1 WR? He's a good #2 that takes the top off the D and 719 yds is not bad for someone that has miss that much time
Miller if he can stay healthy looks very promising, hopefully, he can come of IR someplace he should not have been placed
Adebo, yeah he's a FA but should come cheap because of the DPI's and his injury

The rest of your player assessment I agree with.
As far as an attractive place for a new HC, not the best but far from the worst. We have an owner and a GM that give the HC everything he wants to succeed and won't pull the rug out from under him quickly.
1,We have a vet QB for at least 2 yrs that as of right now is # 10 in QBR ratings which is the best judge of a QB .
2, We have a RB that is #3 in all-purpose yds and has at least 2 more yrs at a high level.
3, We have a young OL that when healthy has been dominated will continue to get better
4, Except for TM we have a young very good secondary
5 We will probably have a top 12 or so pick in the draft along with some extra ammo to add depth or maybe even find a gem

Yes we have cap issues but it's never kept us from signing anyone we really wanted
We have holes, DL,WR even if Olave comes back , TE, but those can be filled with a good draft this yr and maybe even next

 

[WhoDat?DrewDat]

1, We will never be a team that has 30+ mil in cap space. That's for teams that are bad or have QBs on a rookie deal, or in the Lions case almost all of their best players on rookie deals . Also look at the teams with a lot of cap space and see how many FAs there are that they have to resign.

Fair assessment.

2, Being past their prime does not mean that they are not playing at a high level. Yes Cam should probably retire but maybe he could be used better. AK still has 2yrs at a very high level he's running the ball better than he has in the last 3 yrs. DD will start to decline but has at least 1 more very good yr same with Mathieu , he had the game sealing pick . TH while is 34 he has not played a lot yrs in the NFL so it's not an overused

My point is that all those players are on the decline. They cannot be counted on for a new coach to build his future with. They're depreciating assets.

3, Bresse was never great at run-stopping He has 4 sacks so far and he had 4.5 all last yr and we have 7 games left and he's on par to pass his comb and solo tackles from last yr

Sacks are an awful way to gauge pash rushing success. It's his pass rush win rate, QB hit rate, and QB pressure rate are significantly worse than last year. This is not up for debate, all of this is actual data.

If he's a pass rush specialist that is not good at rushing the passer.... tough year for him.

Taylor , you are just way off AT is one of the better slot guys in the league and he just switched to outside maybe give him a min to get used to the change
Turner, He's been healthy to start and he's had some flashes , he played very well on Sun. let's see how the rest of the season plays out for him

Sure Taylor has promising moments. BUT he is also having a poor year. He's giving up 20% completion % increase from last year. He's missed more tackles this year than last and there's still 8 games remaining. .

As far as an attractive place for a new HC, not the best but far from the worst. We have an owner and a GM that give the HC everything he wants to succeed and won't pull the rug out from under him quickly.
1,We have a vet QB for at least 2 yrs that as of right now is # 10 in QBR ratings which is the best judge of a QB .

Carr is who he is. He's a middle of the pack 20-16 ish QB in the league. That's not moving the needle for anyone.

The rest of your post was fair.

 

[DSnfla]

Fair assessment.


My point is that all those players are on the decline. They cannot be counted on for a new coach to build his future with. They're depreciating assets.

Sacks are an awful way to gauge pash rushing success. It's his pass rush win rate, QB hit rate, and QB pressure rate are significantly worse than last year. This is not up for debate, all of this is actual data.

If he's a pass rush specialist that is not good at rushing the passer.... tough year for him.


Sure Taylor has promising moments. BUT he is also having a poor year. He's giving up 20% completion % increase from last year. He's missed more tackles this year than last and there's still 8 games remaining. .

Carr is who he is. He's a middle of the pack 20-16 ish QB in the league. That's not moving the needle for anyone.

The rest of your post was fair.

You are making a judgement on Taylor and Bresse when we just past the halfway part of the season , let's wait till the end to judge
Like I said at this moment DC is the # 10 QB according to the QBR ratings. Those are facts and not up for debate . Put a good team and a good OC behind DC and you'll get a good to very good QB