Be Patient With Reggie (stat comparison) (1 Viewer)

[OKSaint]

Maybe Brees can hook up Reggie with LT during the coming off-season where he can learn from the best running back in the league.. Reggie just needs to let plays develop and not jump around so much. I saw on a couple of plays against the Bucs where he did not follow Karney and did not let the play develop. This will take a little time to develop and I think that working with LT could only help him.

 

[Danchrism]

Reggie has been hampered by a bad ankle all season. He still has 8 games to go.

He messed his ankle up late in the Baltimore game. PLEASE, kill the excuses already. Now you guys are just reaching...

Bush's recieving abiltiy is what makes him, imho, redefine the running back position.

Wrong.

See Metcalf, E.; Harmon, R.; Milburn, G.; et al.

This is like those people who say Vick revolutionizes the QB position, forgetting that guys like Young, Cunningham, and Tarkenton all did what he does. He's just pretty darn good at it.

 

[NPs6724]

What does being a featured back have to do with YPC? This is another fine example of making excuses, not an informed debate. You say Portis had a great rookie year due to the OL in Den, but he's rolling along in DC. Dunn & Bennett dont share carries????

I'll bet you wouldnt diminish Bush's great rookie year catches by saying Horn & Colston are out there, Deuce is in the backfield, so Bush has to be open. Bush gets plenty of carries. Certainly enough to offer a reasonable evaul.

My point was that the OP comparing a #2 pick to 2nd & 3rd rounders was flawed. Why would that excite you people? Ds didnt key on LT, Portis, Faulk & others??? How about LJ? The truth doesnt mean I'm bashing, but I don't like to be insulted by wading through excuses.

Fewer carries means the RB never gets into a groove and never gets comfortable. When you're not the feature back, you don't get 25 carries a game. These are not excuses, these are facts. Very few RBs can have 15 or fewer carries and tear it up. Deuce almost never does, his big quarters are usually the 4th unless they go to him early and often.

DeShaun Foster has made a career of having several bad runs before he breaks one. He will go 1, 2, 1, 1, 0, -2, -1, 1, 1, 3, 4, 2, -2 before he busts a 60-yarder. If he only had 10 carries, he would only get the 1, 2, 1, 1, 0, -2, -1, 1, 1, 3 and never reach the 60-yarder.

If you check Portis' first year in DC, his YPC dropped off from 5.5 and 5.5 his first two years to 3.8. So he wasn't rolling in DC until after another year. And no, Dunn and Bennett DIDN'T share carries. We are talking as rookies, not as veterans. They share carries NOW, but even now Dunn has had over 220 carries every year he has played in 16 games.

Comparing 1st rounders doesn't mean anything if all the ones you chose were immediately starters while Reggie isn't. You're comparing guys getting a consistent 25 carries a game to a guy getting 15 if he's lucky. You're right, Reggie had had enough carries to be evaluated, but he doesn't get enough PER GAME to be more effective. Take away Deuce and Reggie gets 25-30 carries and he is probably more effective. It's tough to go 5-10 minutes between carries.

There is a different between excuses and reasons so let's not get them confused. These are REASONS Reggie isn't producing, not excuses about WHY he isn't.

 

[dninc]

I would argue that just this offseason alone, Bush doesn't even crack the top 3.

1) Sean Payton
2) Drew Brees
3) Marques Colston.

So you can sit there and argue that Bush doesn't make that list becuase he's not putting up a few stats?.

Bush has been nothing but good for this city, Fan base Revitalization, without him i don't think we'd be a sell out city and have Waiting list, No one "before the season started" Thought Brees was any good, and people questioned Payton's Coaching during preseason, and Colston is just a damn good Rookie but no one expected him to keep it up.

Bush should be on the top of that list this year, He's been the guy that Defenses has studied to key up on.. I live in Tampa and i've read the articles about what they were going to do to bush before the season started, They actually hired guys from USC that coached or Knew Bush to come to tampa and find his weaknesses and strengths and what to expect, Tampa's Defense was WELL prepared to stop bush, What they didn't expect was Colston, NO ONE Gameplanned for Colston and probably still arn't ready for him.

Everybody expected brees to be a bust before his season started because of his arm, no one expected him to recover 100000000000% and probably is going to be a Pro bowler this year. I Knew all along That this was going to happen to bush, and im sure everybody on the team did to, you also can't fully blame Bush for whats happening, That OL is not exactly the best Run Block OL in the league, Duece is a beast and a vet he's turned his body into a tank to make his own holes, Reggie is reliant on the OL to make holes for him, Reggie's problem is mostly like "he's too quick" and he wants the Offense to adjust to HIM, He'll learn this soon but it's only been a half season, give the boy sometime JESUS!

Alot of good has come out of Reggie dispite his Stats, He's the guy everybody waits on to even sniff the ball hard, so while they are keying on that, Duece isn't getting the attention that is needed and he ends up breaking for incredible yards, Other players such as Colston can get Open passes "Most times" because Bree's fakes to Bush and almost-"AUTOMATICALLY 20 Guys see that Transaction happening and head toward bush, - "NOPE ball heads out field to Colston and an Entire Defense is instantly Exploited.

Stop throwing bush on the bus, he's a good Athelete and believe it or not is probably the main reason we "ARE" 6-2

 

[Bishop]

Fewer carries means the RB never gets into a groove and never gets comfortable. When you're not the feature back, you don't get 25 carries a game. These are not excuses, these are facts. Very few RBs can have 15 or fewer carries and tear it up. Deuce almost never does, his big quarters are usually the 4th unless they go to him early and often.

DeShaun Foster has made a career of having several bad runs before he breaks one. He will go 1, 2, 1, 1, 0, -2, -1, 1, 1, 3, 4, 2, -2 before he busts a 60-yarder. If he only had 10 carries, he would only get the 1, 2, 1, 1, 0, -2, -1, 1, 1, 3 and never reach the 60-yarder.

If you check Portis' first year in DC, his YPC dropped off from 5.5 and 5.5 his first two years to 3.8. So he wasn't rolling in DC until after another year. And no, Dunn and Bennett DIDN'T share carries. We are talking as rookies, not as veterans. They share carries NOW, but even now Dunn has had over 220 carries every year he has played in 16 games.

Comparing 1st rounders doesn't mean anything if all the ones you chose were immediately starters while Reggie isn't. You're comparing guys getting a consistent 25 carries a game to a guy getting 15 if he's lucky. You're right, Reggie had had enough carries to be evaluated, but he doesn't get enough PER GAME to be more effective. Take away Deuce and Reggie gets 25-30 carries and he is probably more effective. It's tough to go 5-10 minutes between carries.

There is a different between excuses and reasons so let's not get them confused. These are REASONS Reggie isn't producing, not excuses about WHY he isn't.

How often was Bush a 20-25 carry RB at USC? 10 carries and 6 catches per is enough to show us that something is off about Bush. Deuce is hobbled. Bush would get more carries, if he could improve 2.6 per. He isn't patient. He doesn't like to hit interior gaps. He rarely breaks tackles, or fakes out anyone.

The other backs I've mentioned were doing so early in games, not after 15 carries. Some, from day 1. I'm not sure what other spins people can put on that. BTW...Ds getting tired, and OCs figuring out how to hurt them has a lot to do with an RB finding his groove after so many carries. Jim Henderson started mumbling a month ago about Bush.

 

[saintgirly]

Reggie commands attention from the defense whenever he is on the field. He is a great asset for the Saints and has contributed to the Saints 6-2 record regardless of what the stats say.

 

[Rickysmyhero]

Reggie commands attention from the defense whenever he is on the field. He is a great asset for the Saints and has contributed to the Saints 6-2 record regardless of what the stats say.

Unless he starts doing something, anything, he won't be commanding much...He has shown ZERO running the ball from the RB position...

 

[superchuck500]

The point of this original post wasn't to compare Bush's rookie season to other running backs' more successful rookie seasons. He clearly is struggling running the football- we all know that. We don't need to see the numbers of his 2.6 ypc versus the much higher numbers from other backs.

The point was to demonstrate that sometimes great backs (i.e. tiki and westbrook) can take a year or two to develop and that, after just 8 games, it's too early to start concluding that maybe he isn't the back he was supposed to be.

 

[Bishop]

Why should a #2 pick take as long as 2nd & 3rd rounders to develop? Going by what everyone including Bush said, he should be doing more as a runner now. We know most players need time, but excuses extended this thread.

 

[saintgirly]

Unless he starts doing something, anything, he won't be commanding much...He has shown ZERO running the ball from the RB position...

Defenses are game planning against Reggie. He is commanding attention and that is leaving other players open to make the plays. I can't wait for teams to start thinking they don't need to pay attention to him.

 

[superchuck500]

Why should a #2 pick take as long as 2nd & 3rd rounders to develop?

Because it is human nature- we aren't predictable robots. It doesn't matter now when he was picked. Are you saying that we should be less patient with a 1st rounder than a 2nd rounder? I certainly understand the expectation is different because of the high draft choice- but when results aren't immediate, I don't think you're any less patient. In fact, you've got reason to be more patient because of your investment.

 

[Bishop]

Because it is human nature- we aren't predictable robots. It doesn't matter now when he was picked. Are you saying that we should be less patient with a 1st rounder than a 2nd rounder? I certainly understand the expectation is different because of the high draft choice- but when results aren't immediate, I don't think you're any less patient. In fact, you've got reason to be more patient because of your investment.

I always intended on giving Bush 3 years before annointing Bush as anything. Just as any other high pick. I was merely pointing out that patience with Tiki & Westbrook was to be expected, and we aren't seeing what would justity passing on another 1st & 3rd thus far.

I've detailed in other threads basic running skills that seem to be lacking thus far with Bush. When people proposed what I felt to be excuses, I responded.

 

[Danchrism]

So you can sit there and argue that Bush doesn't make that list becuase he's not putting up a few stats?.

Bush has been nothing but good for this city, Fan base Revitalization, without him i don't think we'd be a sell out city and have Waiting list, No one "before the season started" Thought Brees was any good, and people questioned Payton's Coaching during preseason, and Colston is just a damn good Rookie but no one expected him to keep it up.

Bush should be on the top of that list this year, He's been the guy that Defenses has studied to key up on.. I live in Tampa and i've read the articles about what they were going to do to bush before the season started, They actually hired guys from USC that coached or Knew Bush to come to tampa and find his weaknesses and strengths and what to expect, Tampa's Defense was WELL prepared to stop bush, What they didn't expect was Colston, NO ONE Gameplanned for Colston and probably still arn't ready for him.

Everybody expected brees to be a bust before his season started because of his arm, no one expected him to recover 100000000000% and probably is going to be a Pro bowler this year. I Knew all along That this was going to happen to bush, and im sure everybody on the team did to, you also can't fully blame Bush for whats happening, That OL is not exactly the best Run Block OL in the league, Duece is a beast and a vet he's turned his body into a tank to make his own holes, Reggie is reliant on the OL to make holes for him, Reggie's problem is mostly like "he's too quick" and he wants the Offense to adjust to HIM, He'll learn this soon but it's only been a half season, give the boy sometime JESUS!

Alot of good has come out of Reggie dispite his Stats, He's the guy everybody waits on to even sniff the ball hard, so while they are keying on that, Duece isn't getting the attention that is needed and he ends up breaking for incredible yards, Other players such as Colston can get Open passes "Most times" because Bree's fakes to Bush and almost-"AUTOMATICALLY 20 Guys see that Transaction happening and head toward bush, - "NOPE ball heads out field to Colston and an Entire Defense is instantly Exploited.

Stop throwing bush on the bus, he's a good Athelete and believe it or not is probably the main reason we "ARE" 6-2

I never said no good came out of Bush. However, in light of his poor performance with football in hand, some amongst us are overexaggerating the "he opens everything else up" bit. You're not gonna sit here and tell me that the only reason that big plays have occured is because of #25's being on the field. You're not. You're not.

 

[da nite tripper]

However, in light of his poor performance with football in hand, some amongst us are overexaggerating the "he opens everything else up" bit. You're not gonna sit here and tell me that the only reason that big plays have occured is because of #25's being on the field. You're not. You're not.

First off, I agree he has some flaws right now. Particularly, the impatience he's shown as a back and his eagerness to take the ball outside. But I'd like to make 2 responses to the above quote. "With football in hand", Reggie's made quite a few plays, not as a RB per se, but plays that got first downs, influenced field position and won a game.

And you're partially correct that I won't tell you that big plays have ONLY occurred b/c of #25. But with that in mind, you can't tell me that his being on the field hasn't contributed to opening up the offense and buying time for Brees. Per example, check out Devery's 1st TD in the Bucs game (at least I think it was his first). From the end zone camera angle, you'll see that Reggie goes wide on a fake sweep to the leftside and the whole defense bit, thus creating the seam for Devery. That, my friend, is fact.

Criticizing players is fair game, but look at the whole of the contribution.

 

[Danchrism]

And again, I didn't say that he doesn't help out sometimes - others on this board have painted the picture so as to state "Bush is on the field, we make a big play, therefore the big play only happened because, and will happen when, Bush is on the field."

I choose the words I write with care and for a reason. Read them.

 

[superchuck500]

I always intended on giving Bush 3 years before annointing Bush as anything. Just as any other high pick. I was merely pointing out that patience with Tiki & Westbrook was to be expected, and we aren't seeing what would justity passing on another 1st & 3rd thus far.

I've detailed in other threads basic running skills that seem to be lacking thus far with Bush. When people proposed what I felt to be excuses, I responded.

Yeah, I hear ya. I agree that we haven't seen the running skills yet either. But my attitude at this point is patience- relying on Reggie's talent, work ethic and coaching for him to come around, like others like Tiki have done. Which was kind of what I said in the original post.

But definitely not making excuses- you're right about that. I still think his presence on the field makes the Saints better. Because regardless of how well he runs between the tackles- if he gets the ball in open space (whether by handoff, pitch or pass) he's gone, and defenses are obliged to respect that. We haven't seen get that kind of space yet because defenses ARE focusing that much on him- in my opinion. But when he gets that kind of space, it's going to be a big gain. Either way, he still needs a lot of work in traditional rushing- and we need, for now at least, to be very patient.