Bill Walton has passed away at 71 years old (1 Viewer)

[Saintman2884]

Well, sort of. They were the giants of their day, but we have to remember that those guys didn't have, or even need the strength and training regimens today's players go through, not to mention everything else we know now about health and nutrition. I have no doubt Russell and Chamberlain would have had Hall of Fame careers even today. They definitely would have had to work harder for everything, but considering their work ethic was pretty much unquestioned back then, I they would have put in the necessary work.

All that said, comparing players 30-40 years apart is almost always a fool's errand.

Considering how Walton played in and competed in a much more physical, pushy, demanding NBA then what exists now of what defenses can get away and how they could literally maul players like Walton back then, I don't necessarily think its foolish or naive to suggest Bill would average more points, assists, and rebounds now then he did 45 years ago when opposing defenses could more forcibly bump, hit, push, scratch, claw and often throw punches at you and commit hard fouls that in 2024 would get your arse ejected and fined ____________ of money. Defenses can't do 20% of what they used to be able to get away 30 years ago much less when Pistol Pete Maravich had to worry about maybe getting clotheslined running into the paint for a lay-up.

 

[DaveXA]

Considering how Walton played in and competed in a much more physical, pushy, demanding NBA then what exists now of what defenses can get away and how they could literally maul players like Walton back then, I don't necessarily think its foolish or naive to suggest Bill would average more points, assists, and rebounds now then he did 45 years ago when opposing defenses could more forcibly bump, hit, push, scratch, claw and often throw punches at you and commit hard fouls that in 2024 would get your arse ejected and fined ____________ of money. Defenses can't do 20% of what they used to be able to get away 30 years ago much less when Pistol Pete Maravich had to worry about maybe getting clotheslined running into the paint for a lay-up.

Yeah, I'd say the end of the truly physical, bully-ball brand of basketball ended with the Rodman-Laimbeer led Pistons. They would maul you, and they were super strong for a few years, but ultimately, the Bulls and Jordan overcame all of that. Ever since then, with the addition of more severe penalties for flagrant fouls, and officiating calling the game differently, the days of bully ball are long gone, for better or worse.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

Yeah, I'd say the end of the truly physical, bully-ball brand of basketball ended with the Rodman-Laimbeer led Pistons. They would maul you, and they were super strong for a few years, but ultimately, the Bulls and Jordan overcame all of that. Ever since then, with the addition of more severe penalties for flagrant fouls, and officiating calling the game differently, the days of bully ball are long gone, for better or worse.

Ewing, Oakley definitely extended it past zeetes’ team
And the Mourning, Johnson hornets were probably the last incarnation

 

[DaveXA]

Ewing, Oakley definitely extended it past zeetes’ team
And the Mourning, Johnson hornets were probably the last incarnation

Knicks at that time were definitely physical, but I'd kinda lump them in the same generation of players as those Pistons were. Maybe not fair, but lol.

And Hornets did play rough at times, so did the Miami Heat. There have some strong defensive teams that have their own level of play since then, but it's not the same imo.

That's more of the way the game has evolved than anything else though. If the rules were were the same as then, you'd have a handful of teams playing that bully ball brand of basketball.

 

[Saintman2884]

Knicks at that time were definitely physical, but I'd kinda lump them in the same generation of players as those Pistons were. Maybe not fair, but lol.

And Hornets did play rough at times, so did the Miami Heat. There have some strong defensive teams that have their own level of play since then, but it's not the same imo.

That's more of the way the game has evolved than anything else though. If the rules were were the same as then, you'd have a handful of teams playing that bully ball brand of basketball.

The San Antonio Spurs of the 2000's and early 2010's with Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobili, Trey Parker, Bruce Bowen won most of their NBA Titles arguably to stiff, lock-down, aggressive defensive play but they werent this "sexy, alluring, high-scoring" squad that won always on shootouts. Defense and sort of having the NBA's version of Bill Belichick (albeit more liked, well-respected, and with a few more friends) in Gregg Poppovich who could out-strategize, out-maneuver, and motivate better then most other NBA HC's in his prime.

Teams like San Antonio and later on, the mid-late 2010's Golden State Warriors are why LeBron James doesn't have 7,8, or 9 NBA rings on his fingers right now.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

Knicks at that time were definitely physical, but I'd kinda lump them in the same generation of players as those Pistons were. Maybe not fair, but lol.

And Hornets did play rough at times, so did the Miami Heat. There have some strong defensive teams that have their own level of play since then, but it's not the same imo.

That's more of the way the game has evolved than anything else though. If the rules were were the same as then, you'd have a handful of teams playing that bully ball brand of basketball.

I think as fans we tend to think that rule changes lead the evolution but I think they’re usually reactive
Like Walsh/Montana 49ers showed a new O philosophy and league was like ‘that please’
I think Iverson might have been the transitional figure- it was an exciting brand of ball that worked best in space and the league adjusted

 

[DaveXA]

The San Antonio Spurs of the 2000's and early 2010's with Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobili, Trey Parker, Bruce Bowen won most of their NBA Titles arguably to stiff, lock-down, aggressive defensive play but they werent this "sexy, alluring, high-scoring" squad that won always on shootouts. Defense and sort of having the NBA's version of Bill Belichick (albeit more liked, well-respected, and with a few more friends) in Gregg Poppovich who could out-strategize, out-maneuver, and motivate better then most other NBA HC's in his prime.

Teams like San Antonio and later on, the mid-late 2010's Golden State Warriors LeBron James doesn't have 7,8, or 9 NBA rings on his fingers right now.

Sure, their defenses were more like the Bulls which was very good and not so much like the Knicks/Pistons of the day.

 

[DaveXA]

I think as fans we tend to think that rule changes lead the evolution but I think they’re usually reactive
Like Walsh/Montana 49ers showed a new O philosophy and league was like ‘that please’
I think Iverson might have been the transitional figure- it was an exciting brand of ball that worked best in space and the league adjusted

Maybe, but the rules did and have changed. There was no such thing as flagrant 1/2 back then and the officials called fouls differently then than now. A good example is you could get under the feet of a shooter and not get a foul called on you. You could hand check a guy dribbling towards the basket and officials wouldn't typically call those. They call them far more tightly now, which really favors the offense. It's just a much different game now than then.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

Maybe, but the rules did and have changed. There was no such thing as flagrant 1/2 back then and the officials called fouls differently then than now. A good example is you could get under the feet of a shooter and not get a foul called on you. You could hand check a guy dribbling towards the basket and officials wouldn't typically call those. They call them far more tightly now, which really favors the offense. It's just a much different game now than then.

I’m not saying the rules didn’t change- but almost always rule changes are reactive not proactive

 

[sfidc3]

I tend to believe that of all of the past greats from before the modern era (Magic and Bird) Russell would have the most trouble trying to adapt his game to the modern game. He was THE rim protector, but the modern game would make his game thinner. He was athletic and smart, but guys like Joker would be very difficult. Shaq would be quite impossible for Bill even though he held his own against Wilt.

I agree, the game has changed drastically, though I think Bill would have held his own against Shaq......Eras aside, I think Wilt was a tougher guard than Shaq....but we will never know.....

 

[DaveXA]

I’m not saying the rules didn’t change- but almost always rule changes are reactive not proactive

Sure, in a lot of cases yes. But I'm saying the game changed because the rules changed. Like, in the NFL, you'd see guys getting injured because they tackled awkwardly and so the horse collar penalty was added. That changed the way defenses tackled. Same with the NBA. Saw players getting lower leg injuries because defenders often would sneak a foot or crowd him enough that he can't come down on his feet, and the NBA made that a foul. This gave shooters a bit more space and opened things up for the offenses.

So yes rules changes were often reactionary, but they also affected the approach teams take in their game plans. The game strategies didn't change the rules. The rules affected the game planning.