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Yeah, LTC has been going nuts. It's up like 600% since I bought it.
Bitcoin and Crypto Talk (Merged)(includes NFT) (4 Viewers)
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Yeah, LTC has been going nuts. It's up like 600% since I bought it.
RKNSaint
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Coinbase kind of screwed me on my weekly buy of ETH. Normally my transaction is on Monday. This week it came thru today.
rsmith2783
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LTC is looking real nice.
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Any bitcoin invester has to make sure that their vehicle is liquid and nimble - because there remain fundamental questions about bitcoin's value.
There are unanswered questions of what is bitcoin and why to be investing in it? There are three answers really - bitcoin is a currency or bitcoin is a store of wealth (realistically a combination of both), or, thirdly bitcoin simply a hot market gamble to make money (buy and then sell on the first sign of weakness) otherwise known as a bubble. But if you analyze each of those categories, it's hard to be confident in any of this.
Bitcoin's fundamental, origination purpose is as a currency - this is why it exists. And as a currency, bitcoin has a leg up on being the first of its kind of have the fully anonymous yet fully validated blockchain crytpo nature in acting as a currency. Yes, it works, but for the most part, people aren't really using it as a currency . . . and it's not just a matter of the vendor community coming around to accepting bitcoin. Bitcoin transactions take several minutes or more to go through the blockchain validation process - and bitcoin transactions can have high fees. The system is setup to charge fees based on usage of the network . . . and sort of like when Uber charges surge or peak prices, bitcoin can have substantially increased fees when demand on the network is high.
Slow processing time and high fees are never a good formula in a transaction-based business. And if you look at bitcoin's use as a percentage of the cryptocurrency universe, it has gone from near 100% to about half (50%) in a matter of months, as other cryptocurrencies can offer the transactional purpose. If you're looking to spend money in the form of cryptocurrency rather than as a store of wealth (invest to hold on to), then you don't care which one it is as long as the particular seller(s) you deal with take another currency.
So if bitcoin's use as a currency is hampered by transaction time and fees, and it's use as a currency is losing market share - you have to question the value and viability of bitcoin as a currency. And because functioning as currency is why bitcoin exists, this is a significant if not fundamental question.
But most people why buy bitcoin have no intention of using it as a currency. Rather, they are buying it as an investment - an asset for which you take other money (e.g. cash) and convert to bitcoin on the premise that it will become more valuable over time than your cash would have. This is called a store of wealth and the best analogy is gold. Gold has valuable uses but individuals with investment quantity funds typically buy gold as a store of wealth. But gold has been valued by humans for thousands of years and has a tangible character to it that we all attribute to being intrinsically valuable.
Is bitcoin a legitimate store of wealth? The initial rise of bitcoin was based on the idea that there will always be a limited supply of bitcoin, no central bank can simply decide to print more. And, thus, it would become more valuable as demand for bitcoin increased - and as it become more common in its use as a currency, this would increase demand, all operating on fundamentals. From there you get a cycle of anticipated future demand increases leading to current demand increases (speculative in nature) and the valuation curve begins to rise and eventually turn exponential.
These kinds of valuation rises are not necessarily a bubble. Often there are solid fundamentals behind them and the entire investment proposition remains sound. But as far as I can tell, the only fundamental behind bitcoin is it's use as a currency. It has no other "use"; it has no intrinsic value; it lacks the kind of long-term validation as something that mankind considers intrinsically valuable; in other words, it is nothing like gold.
Some visionary types could argue that the only difference between gold and bitcoin is time. The idea that you could convert fiat currency (that is subject to central bank manipulation or even seizure by the government) to another form of liquid asset beyond the reach of those forces - which are bad for humankind and are on the downside of their influence in a changing, globalizing world - is fundamentally valuable. And because bitcoin is available in this manner to everyone on the planet, we haven't even begun to see its true value. Therefore as a store of wealth, it is a sound proposition.
Perhaps that is true as a possible future . . . but that play is long, possibly even long to the tune of lifetimes. And that notion is categorically true for all blockchain crytpocurrency - it isn't unique to bitcoin. Yes, sometimes the original idea remains the best, but often it doesn't. It is possible that vision does indeed come to fruition, but not with bitcoin.
In the meantime, the fundamental value of bitcoin remains tied to its transactional use (as a currency). As substantial questions apply to use, and as recent performance has shown shrinking market share in the world of crtypo-transactions, it is impossible to be confident that bitcoin's value is rising due to fundamentals.
Which leads to the last category of what bitcoin investing is: gambling based on the idea of timing the market right. In this scenario, bitcoin is purely a bubble, with dramatic value rises based simply on the human behavior to want to buy something now based purely on the anticipation that it will be more valuable tomorrow. This increases current demand, but irrationally. Irrational demand will fizzle and the bubble will pop. The fall will be dramatic and many will lose huge percentages of what they have invested.
If you're going to operate in this environment, you have to be extremely nimble and reliably liquid (you have to be able to execute your sell on a moment's notice). But even then, when there's no buyer, you're stuck holding the asset.
There are unanswered questions of what is bitcoin and why to be investing in it? There are three answers really - bitcoin is a currency or bitcoin is a store of wealth (realistically a combination of both), or, thirdly bitcoin simply a hot market gamble to make money (buy and then sell on the first sign of weakness) otherwise known as a bubble. But if you analyze each of those categories, it's hard to be confident in any of this.
Bitcoin's fundamental, origination purpose is as a currency - this is why it exists. And as a currency, bitcoin has a leg up on being the first of its kind of have the fully anonymous yet fully validated blockchain crytpo nature in acting as a currency. Yes, it works, but for the most part, people aren't really using it as a currency . . . and it's not just a matter of the vendor community coming around to accepting bitcoin. Bitcoin transactions take several minutes or more to go through the blockchain validation process - and bitcoin transactions can have high fees. The system is setup to charge fees based on usage of the network . . . and sort of like when Uber charges surge or peak prices, bitcoin can have substantially increased fees when demand on the network is high.
Slow processing time and high fees are never a good formula in a transaction-based business. And if you look at bitcoin's use as a percentage of the cryptocurrency universe, it has gone from near 100% to about half (50%) in a matter of months, as other cryptocurrencies can offer the transactional purpose. If you're looking to spend money in the form of cryptocurrency rather than as a store of wealth (invest to hold on to), then you don't care which one it is as long as the particular seller(s) you deal with take another currency.
So if bitcoin's use as a currency is hampered by transaction time and fees, and it's use as a currency is losing market share - you have to question the value and viability of bitcoin as a currency. And because functioning as currency is why bitcoin exists, this is a significant if not fundamental question.
But most people why buy bitcoin have no intention of using it as a currency. Rather, they are buying it as an investment - an asset for which you take other money (e.g. cash) and convert to bitcoin on the premise that it will become more valuable over time than your cash would have. This is called a store of wealth and the best analogy is gold. Gold has valuable uses but individuals with investment quantity funds typically buy gold as a store of wealth. But gold has been valued by humans for thousands of years and has a tangible character to it that we all attribute to being intrinsically valuable.
Is bitcoin a legitimate store of wealth? The initial rise of bitcoin was based on the idea that there will always be a limited supply of bitcoin, no central bank can simply decide to print more. And, thus, it would become more valuable as demand for bitcoin increased - and as it become more common in its use as a currency, this would increase demand, all operating on fundamentals. From there you get a cycle of anticipated future demand increases leading to current demand increases (speculative in nature) and the valuation curve begins to rise and eventually turn exponential.
These kinds of valuation rises are not necessarily a bubble. Often there are solid fundamentals behind them and the entire investment proposition remains sound. But as far as I can tell, the only fundamental behind bitcoin is it's use as a currency. It has no other "use"; it has no intrinsic value; it lacks the kind of long-term validation as something that mankind considers intrinsically valuable; in other words, it is nothing like gold.
Some visionary types could argue that the only difference between gold and bitcoin is time. The idea that you could convert fiat currency (that is subject to central bank manipulation or even seizure by the government) to another form of liquid asset beyond the reach of those forces - which are bad for humankind and are on the downside of their influence in a changing, globalizing world - is fundamentally valuable. And because bitcoin is available in this manner to everyone on the planet, we haven't even begun to see its true value. Therefore as a store of wealth, it is a sound proposition.
Perhaps that is true as a possible future . . . but that play is long, possibly even long to the tune of lifetimes. And that notion is categorically true for all blockchain crytpocurrency - it isn't unique to bitcoin. Yes, sometimes the original idea remains the best, but often it doesn't. It is possible that vision does indeed come to fruition, but not with bitcoin.
In the meantime, the fundamental value of bitcoin remains tied to its transactional use (as a currency). As substantial questions apply to use, and as recent performance has shown shrinking market share in the world of crtypo-transactions, it is impossible to be confident that bitcoin's value is rising due to fundamentals.
Which leads to the last category of what bitcoin investing is: gambling based on the idea of timing the market right. In this scenario, bitcoin is purely a bubble, with dramatic value rises based simply on the human behavior to want to buy something now based purely on the anticipation that it will be more valuable tomorrow. This increases current demand, but irrationally. Irrational demand will fizzle and the bubble will pop. The fall will be dramatic and many will lose huge percentages of what they have invested.
If you're going to operate in this environment, you have to be extremely nimble and reliably liquid (you have to be able to execute your sell on a moment's notice). But even then, when there's no buyer, you're stuck holding the asset.
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I'm not understanding. When you buy your price is locked regardless of when the money comes through.
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All very true SC500, but somewhat of a buffer on BTC is that you can convert it to so many other currencies which are being developed with fundamentals. ETH with its contracts built in makes for a great vehicle to track things heretofore used with paper such as titles, liens, warranties, etc. Then you have MS going in with IOTA to provide a system of purchase for the internet of things. Already there are music, gene sequencing, travel planning, options too.
BTC could very well collapse, but the Dow dumped half it's value only a decade ago and could again. I wouldn't bet my retirement on it, but if you have some extra cash to speculate with you might be able to retire earlier than anticipated.
BTC could very well collapse, but the Dow dumped half it's value only a decade ago and could again. I wouldn't bet my retirement on it, but if you have some extra cash to speculate with you might be able to retire earlier than anticipated.
RKNSaint
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Thats right. My transaction is scheduled each Monday and secures the price. This week my transaction and price wasnt secured until today. I have a question into them about it.
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VaeVictus
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I'm putting some money down on litecoin today. We'll see what happens.
:wake up tomorrow, litecoin dips to $1.98 per coin:
Sounds about right. haha
:wake up tomorrow, litecoin dips to $1.98 per coin:
Sounds about right. haha
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Yeah, it's really hard to predict - it's a new world for sure. Though I have concerns, I also recognize that I'm processing through old world terms.
I'm in BTC through the Bitcoin Investment Trust (GBTC), but that's a pretty easy way to get involved without having to acquire an actual coin or share of a coin. I bought a Trezor coin wallet (storage on removable device) but I haven't bought any coin.
I just guffawed when I first heard about BTC. Obviously there's something there. I'm like you though and don't quite trust it fully.
I just imagine that some college kid in 2009 spend 5k btc for a pizza party worth 20$. That's 85M for a couple pizzas and a 2 liter soda had he just decided to go to sleep and keep that BTC for later.
Arathrael
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Close, but it was 10k BTC in 2010. https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Laszlo_Hanyecz
True, but it's all theoretical until you exchange it for something real. At least he got two actual pizzas.
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Indeed.
And it all has to start somewhere. The Apple I was sold for $666 and is now worth at least 20 times that - perhaps even 50 times that.
kcirdor
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You are the reason we had to leave the Garden aren't you?
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