Chase Daniel's Analysis on the Saints Offense (1 Viewer)

[SonOfNOLA]

Random thought, and this could be accurate.


Carmichael was always the passing game coordinator under Payton...we also didn't have these issues. The guy we'd like to call the plays is now the passing game coordinator.......could he be behind the horrid play designs?

The play design didn’t look ineffective when Curry was calling plays the entire preseason. It looked like bang bang conversions.

During the first 2.5 weeks before Carr’s injury, the play design looked great between the 20s.

Carmichael’s calling the plays and they aren’t good situationally the past 4 games. He’s never calling plays for the first down. It usually those 50/50 home run type pass plays.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

Fa

The play design didn’t look ineffective when Curry was calling plays the entire preseason. It looked like bang bang conversions.

During the first 2.5 weeks before Carr’s injury, the play design looked great between the 20s.

Carmichael’s calling the plays and they aren’t good situationally the past 4 games. He’s never calling plays for the first down. It usually those 50/50 home run type pass plays.

Fair enough, but his playsheet is still filled w/ plays designed or built on during the week. So the fact that they are options would trickle down to the passsing game coordinator wouldn't it?

 

[jahsoul357]

I read today that JAX defenders said they were playing a ton of Cover 2 because they knew the Saints would checkdown, checkdown, checkdown in that situation. I want the calls to be centered around the player (matchup) and not the play itself... Simplify - Heavy run - Heavy motion - 3 reads tops with all of them being to matchup our best players with advantages... and much more misdirection to create space.

Not knocking your point, my towel brother, but the JAX defenders didn't say that they were playing cover 2 because they knew the Saints were going to checkdown. They did that because they knew Derek Carr was going to check down.

All they had to do, Jenkins said, was just keep everything in front of them: "We know that’s Derek Carr’s game. He’s gonna checkdown, checkdown, checkdown. We just have to win the game down the field and that was the mindset of the DBs. We’ll let him have the check-downs, we’ll come up, rally, tackle that, and get rid of the shot plays."

That has less to do with play calling but the one making the plays. Chase's review was good but because JT's showed every throw, it was more balanced. We saw plays where 2 high was beat but Carr went to his checkdown at the end of the his drop back and that's really kinda been the knock against him for a while.

Play calling does leave a lot to be desired but I agree on the main thing; no accountability from the coaching staff (or so it seems).

 

[SonOfNOLA]

Fa

Fair enough, but his playsheet is still filled w/ plays designed or built on during the week. So the fact that they are options would trickle down to the passsing game coordinator wouldn't it?

It’s a lot of Curry’s designs for sure. As the playcaller Carmichael isn’t properly selecting them based on the yards to gain and the field situation.

When the defense is repeatedly sitting their zones in the middle of the field, Carmichael has to adjust the play selection accordingly and calls plays that exploit the open portion of the field with more outs, drags or slants. He’s calling low percentage plays that has our top WRs’ routes going into a pile of coverage.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

Carrs PA fakes are bland. He does nothing that gives the illusion he’s handing it off.

 

[TenTwo]

Nick said it yesterday on the show….. not saying it’s route but a lot of our players are not trying because they know when they get to the top of the route Carr is already checking it down. Nobody wants to run full speed all game when they know they aren’t getting the ball. No I’m not saying it’s acceptable but you have to understand the human element there.

If he checks down too much he’s check down Charlie, if he holds the back too much he’s taking too many sacks. The Offensive line is playing at a terrible level. I kinda feel bad for the guy because he’s can’t win with this line.

 

[UFCSaint]

sat next to him on a plane a couple of weeks ago. nice dude

You look a little like Tom Segura

 

[Noble Saint]

If he checks down too much he’s check down Charlie, if he holds the back too much he’s taking too many sacks. The Offensive line is playing at a terrible level. I kinda feel bad for the guy because he’s can’t win with this line.

Exactly. I thought the narrative was he throws deep looking for the big play too much on 3rd down…

 

[boutte]

If he checks down too much he’s check down Charlie, if he holds the back too much he’s taking too many sacks. The Offensive line is playing at a terrible level. I kinda feel bad for the guy because he’s can’t win with this line.

That's true about the line but he, of anybody on field, is supposed to keep his cool. He's not doing that.

The thing that doesn't get mentioned enough on the Olave fiasco is that he threw the ball away on 3rd down when his 1st read was open. That's more of a problem than the O line.

 

[Rouxble]

Exactly. I thought the narrative was he throws deep looking for the big play too much on 3rd down…

On third down, yes, he passes deep way too often. It’s not a narrative, the numbers make it very clear since we throw 20+ yards downfield at twice the rate of the NFL average. He did it 4 out of 11 times against the Jaguars on 3rd and 6 or less, completing zero.

At the same time, he leads the league in checkdown rate (not sure on the splits by down). Checking down isn’t bad on its own, but it can be if he skips the progression and hits the checkdown at the end of his drop, as JTO pointed out in his film study.

It’s the worst mix, both involve passing on the progression way too often.

 

[SubmarineMike]

The cover 2 thing is concerning because we have multiple guys who can threaten the seams. So it's concerning to not see that adjustment.

I think it's a mixture of everyone, but most of the blame still goes to the coaches IMHO. The way this entire team is falling a part is something to behold. It's the offensive coaches job to put the guys in position where they do what they are good at, and stay away from what they don't perform well.

If Carr doesn't trust the plays and is doing his own thing, WHY are we calling those plays and implementing them into the gameplan?

I wonder if in the Olave play discussed ad nauseum, if perhaps Carr hoped that Olave would beat his defender and he would have been able to throw a bomb to him, even though he wasn't even supposed to be in the progressions.

 

[TenTwo]

That's true about the line but he, of anybody on field, is supposed to keep his cool. He's not doing that.

The thing that doesn't get mentioned enough on the Olave fiasco is that he threw the ball away on 3rd down when his 1st read was open. That's more of a problem than the O line.

Overall, I agree that Carr needs to cool it. At least wait until you’re on the sidelines and every camera in the world isn’t on you.

I may come across as a Carr apologist, and maybe to some degree I am. I think Carr has every right to be furious but as a leader, you need to understand how to not show your opponents you’re rattled and respect the psychological aspects of high level competition. That negative behavioral outburst demoralizes your own sideline while also lifting up the competition. It’s inexcusable.

 

[Gumbo's Dad]

The cover 2 thing is concerning because we have multiple guys who can threaten the seams. So it's concerning to not see that adjustment.

I think it's a mixture of everyone, but most of the blame still goes to the coaches IMHO. The way this entire team is falling a part is something to behold. It's the offensive coaches job to put the guys in position where they do what they are good at, and stay away from what they don't perform well.

If Carr doesn't trust the plays and is doing his own thing, WHY are we calling those plays and implementing them into the gameplan?

Completely agree. Bad coaching, bad leadership, little or no accountability. It starts and ends with DA and PC. Players are giving up on Carr. Carr cannot play to what strengths he has because plays are not called for them. Carr is frustrated because of both. And the defense of course sees all of this and must deflate them as well. Perfect storm for a putrid season unless they bring in a strong oc. Gruden despite his issues might be the only guy who could try to salvage this season.

 

[boutte]

I wonder if in the Olave play discussed ad nauseum, if perhaps Carr hoped that Olave would beat his defender and he would have been able to throw a bomb to him, even though he wasn't even supposed to be in the progressions.

There was no way the D was letting Olave get deep on that play even if he had run the route correctly. The DB was playing way off and guarding against the deep throw.

But Carr decided to ad lib and failed. Then he threw a hissy fit and embarrassed Olave on National TV. Olave deserves criticism but that's not how you do it. Now he's sorry (but not really) because he's getting trashed in the press.