Does anyone believe the Saints can get back to their winning ways with Loomis in charge of this team? (17 Viewers)

[SAINTSFAN]

Loomis hired Sean.

He certainly got that right. Was he lucky though? Not many were interested in coming to NOLA after Katrina and a young OC looking for a head coaching job took it after he was turned down elsewhere. Payton built the successful Saints.

 

[Saint KayBee]

Mainly he and Dennis Lauscha just have to get the next head coach hire right.

From there, it’s a matter of getting the QB in the building. Maybe that’s via the draft, but possibly it’s as Carr-for-QB on second contract trade, in the fashion of the Stafford-Goff trade.

Then you fix the lines and hope for a playmaker in a mid-round draft pick, in the likes on a Stefon Diggs or Amon-Ra St. Brown.

Finally, for a Taysom Hill replacement… I say look at a service academy QB. Those guys are usually pretty sturdy and should be pretty easy to teach over the course of a couple years.

 

[SAINTSFAN]

Mainly he and Dennis Lauscha just have to get the next head coach hire right.

From there, it’s a matter of getting the QB in the building. Maybe that’s via the draft, but possibly it’s as Carr-for-QB on second contract trade, in the fashion of the Stafford-Goff trade.

Then you fix the lines and hope for a playmaker in a mid-round draft pick, in the likes on a Stefon Diggs or Amon-Ra St. Brown.

Finally, for a Taysom Hill replacement… I say look at a service academy QB. Those guys are usually pretty sturdy and should be pretty easy to teach over the course of a couple years.

Taysom is not someone that is easy to replace. Many teams have tried to copy, but no one has had that level of success. He is a rarity.

 

[St. Widge]

Loomis has been in charge of this team for the tenure of 3 head coaches: Haslett, CSP, and DA. Look at Loomis' record as a GM with each of those HCs and you'll see quite clearly that Loomis' only "winning years" were with CSP. So unless Loomis can identify CSP 2.0 and actually get that guy to accept the HC job, I expect Loomis to continue his 0.400-0.450 winning percentage without CSP. Go ahead, look it up.

We all want a HC that gets the MOST from his players....squeezes the most talent out of the existing roster, and identifies up & coming talent. A coach who elevates those around him! Why shouldn't the criteria be the same for the GM? Loomis doesn't elevate those around him, he stands on their shoulders. He is 1 for 3 in providing winning tenures of the HCs he works with. I'm not confident in his ability to go 2 for 4.

And truth be told, I've said all along that the way CSP left the team was just unusual. Historically WEIRD. Something happened behind the scenes, but we're not being told exactly what. Saints have notoriously been tight-lipped about in-house issues, why would this be any different. We may never know...but SOMETHING happened to set that chain of events in motion. My best GUESS is a perfect storm of events....Tom Benson died. CSP was TIGHT with Benson, and LOYAL. Benson stood behind CSP during his bullshirt 1-year suspension, when he didn't have to, and CSP was appreciative and grateful. When TB died, everything changed in the organization. There was a power-vacuum in Benson's absence, and it was quickly filled by higher-ups who weren't as big of fans of CSP as the deceased Mr. Benson. And Mr. Benson's will basically ensured the "triumvirate of power" would remain in place for the forseeable future, leaving CSP in a diminished role. CSP comes from the Parcells tree....Parcells believes if you want the HC to "cook the meal", he should be able to "shop for the groceries". Mr. Benson was fine with that arrangement. But Mr. B's passing created a natural power vacuum that got filled quickly by others looking to establish their own "control" in Mr. B's wake. It's natural that ML would seize that opportunity to wrest some of that control away from CSP, if for no other reason than for ML to establish that he was doing what Mr. Benson wanted him to do, as established by being named an executor of the will and part of the succession plan. CSP saw an oncoming scenario that was not going to end well, and that he could not win. So he did the ONLY reasonable thing he could....he left, rather than "split the baby" and tear the franchise apart from the inside out. This is all SPECULATION on my part, but the pieces certainly fit together nicely. And it seems to provide a contextual background for ML decisions that have left us scratching our heads; but if viewed from the perspective presented above, seem enlightening, IMO. I think ML is the problem, and I have ZERO confidence in his ability....nay, WILLINGNESS....to return the Saints to their previously successful internal structure. ML has become an executive with no accountability, because he views and acts like an owner. And the fact that he seems to dismiss any and all input around him does not bode well, IMO. The man is out of touch with the fanbase, and doesn't miss an opportunity to tell that fanbase how little they know, compared to him; and the egregious SIN is being so out of touch with the Saints players and locker room. It took Mrs. Benson less than a month to ferret out the issue(s) and make a move to resolve it. ML has been DISMISSING those issues for at least 1-1/2 seasons that we know of. If a GM doesn't have his finger on the pulse of the team, or even worse....doesn't give a sheet about the pulse of the team, they have NO BUSINESS being GM.

All of that is an extremely verbose way of saying "i don't think so, as long as Loomis is in charge".

Loomis didn't hire Haslett. Mueller hired Haslett and Loomis fired Haslett. Loomis is 1-1 with head coaching hires with his first hire being a grand slam and the second one being a pop up to the catcher.

And there is no evidence of any rift between Loomis and Payton. If there had been it would have come out long ago from Jay Glazer or someone else Payton is friendly with. And Parcells also was a guy that believed in moving around a lot and didn't stay in any job for too long. Payton had been toying with other jobs for years but circumstances (bounty gate, McCarthy in Dallas, and tampering charges in Miami) stopped him from taking another job.

 

[Hedon James]

Loomis didn't hire Haslett. Mueller hired Haslett and Loomis fired Haslett. Loomis is 1-1 with head coaching hires with his first hire being a grand slam and the second one being a pop up to the catcher.

And there is no evidence of any rift between Loomis and Payton. If there had been it would have come out long ago from Jay Glazer or someone else Payton is friendly with. And Parcells also was a guy that believed in moving around a lot and didn't stay in any job for too long. Payton had been toying with other jobs for years but circumstances (bounty gate, McCarthy in Dallas, and tampering charges in Miami) stopped him from taking another job.

I didn't say hire, I said TENURE. And the Haslett & DA tenures were failures. But Haslett had more years with ML than he had with Mueller. At least Haslett won a playoff game, so it wasn't a complete loss, but you could see the team declining each year. ML fired Haslett for going 3-13 during the most tumultuous season an NFL team had EVER faced. Didn't see it coming, but it wasn't a gutsy move either. RUMOR has it there were some behind the scenes issues that got Haslett fired, moreso than 3-13 during Katrina season. RUMOR. And it's a fact that MLs W-L record with HCs who are NOT CSP is pretty mediocre. He certainly gets credit for CSP. But after botching the DA hire so badly, and continuing to double-down on that failure, I now question whether Loomis wasn't just LUCKY that Green Bay didn't hire CSP.

I'll concede the 2nd to you...there is no evidence, which is why I said GUESS and SPECULATION. You have to admit, the CSP departure wasn't like anything we had ever seen before. So i'm not sure we heard the true story; and I'm not sure we ever will. If anyone ever talks, my money will be on CSP....but not until after he gets his gold jacket. Talking before....IF there's anything more to tell....serves no purpose; nothing to gain, but everything to lose. You are right about the Parcells comparison, but I don't remember Parcells ever leaving mid-contract. Didn't CSP renew his Saints contract only 1-2 years prior to leaving, and he had 3 years remaining when he left. Not very Parcells-like, IMO.

I stand by my OPINION...I don't believe ML can restore the Saints to winning ways. But I'll eat my crow on a cold platter, and be happy to do it, IF he proves me wrong.

 

[Boy_of_wonder75]

He certainly got that right. Was he lucky though? Not many were interested in coming to NOLA after Katrina and a young OC looking for a head coaching job took it after he was turned down elsewhere. Payton built the successful Saints.

I'm sure luck was involved, there always is when someone is successful. But he didn't hire Kubiak or any of the other people he interviewed for the job.

 

[St. Widge]

I didn't say hire, I said TENURE. And the Haslett & DA tenures were failures. But Haslett had more years with ML than he had with Mueller. At least Haslett won a playoff game, so it wasn't a complete loss, but you could see the team declining each year. ML fired Haslett for going 3-13 during the most tumultuous season an NFL team had EVER faced. Didn't see it coming, but it wasn't a gutsy move either. RUMOR has it there were some behind the scenes issues that got Haslett fired, moreso than 3-13 during Katrina season. RUMOR. And it's a fact that MLs W-L record with HCs who are NOT CSP is pretty mediocre. He certainly gets credit for CSP. But after botching the DA hire so badly, and continuing to double-down on that failure, I now question whether Loomis wasn't just LUCKY that Green Bay didn't hire CSP.

I'll concede the 2nd to you...there is no evidence, which is why I said GUESS and SPECULATION. You have to admit, the CSP departure wasn't like anything we had ever seen before. So i'm not sure we heard the true story; and I'm not sure we ever will. If anyone ever talks, my money will be on CSP....but not until after he gets his gold jacket. Talking before....IF there's anything more to tell....serves no purpose; nothing to gain, but everything to lose. You are right about the Parcells comparison, but I don't remember Parcells ever leaving mid-contract. Didn't CSP renew his Saints contract only 1-2 years prior to leaving, and he had 3 years remaining when he left. Not very Parcells-like, IMO.

I stand by my OPINION...I don't believe ML can restore the Saints to winning ways. But I'll eat my crow on a cold platter, and be happy to do it, IF he proves me wrong.

I think Loomis can turn it around since he has done it before, but it's certainly possible that he won't do it and I'd be happy if they went with a new GM with talent evaluation chops. I just think this narrative that Loomis is a terrible GM is false. There are better GMs like the guys in Philly, Minny, and Baltimore, but there are many worse than Loomis. And hiring a new GM may not result in having a better GM than Loomis.

I also think that if they do hire a new GM, it's not likely to be someone from outside the organization. It has always looked to me that the plan was to promote Ireland or Khai Harley to GM when they moved on from Loomis. I'm not really sure that's the new start that people are looking for.

As far as Haslett, like I said Mueller hired him. And the rumor is that Mueller got fired because he paid off a cheerleader that Haslett got pregnant using Benson's money and not telling Benson about it before he did it. But, Haslett kept his job until the disaster of the Katrina year. But frankly before that despite mediocre results there was really no reason to fire Haslett. He looked to be building the team and he was always going to get some extra time after winning the first playoff game in team history.

And speaking of Katrina, Loomis had a big hand in rebuilding this franchise after Katrina destroyed the Dome and the City. He had to hire a new coaching staff and keep the staff they had while the entire city was falling apart around them. And all the while he was having to deal with fan distrust and backlash after Benson threatened to move the team to San Antonio. Those were very tough times that he guided the franchise through so he has to get some credit for that.

So, while I would like a new GM and think Loomis is far from perfect, I also don't think he's terrible or that the franchise can't be built back into a winner with him as GM.

 

[Cajun Mike]

Absolutely NO

 

[lilvipa221]

No and while Loomis is rightfully credited for hiring Payton and signing Brees, I think he has become wildly overrated because of it. We have one super bowl victory and some good playoff runs but hardly enough to give this man eternal job security over while ignoring his inability to prepare for post Brees.

He is not the GM that should be in charge of a rebuild with Khai Harley being second in command. He also needs to stop hiring his old, retired and out of touch friends to advise him.

 

[504gks]

They went from being the laughing stock of the NFL to a championship contender and winner under Loomis so I don't see why that can't happen again.

No, he lucked out 20 yrs ago. Payton is still winning

 

[504gks]

Mainly he and Dennis Lauscha just have to get the next head coach hire right.

From there, it’s a matter of getting the QB in the building. Maybe that’s via the draft, but possibly it’s as Carr-for-QB on second contract trade, in the fashion of the Stafford-Goff trade.

Then you fix the lines and hope for a playmaker in a mid-round draft pick, in the likes on a Stefon Diggs or Amon-Ra St. Brown.

Finally, for a Taysom Hill replacement… I say look at a service academy QB. Those guys are usually pretty sturdy and should be pretty easy to teach over the course of a couple years.

If you dont improve the personnel Dept, we will never improve. Loomis rarely wins any of his trades, either

 

[504gks]

My new catch phrase was loomis did what?... im changing it to "Loomis made it happen."

Dennis Allen- Loomis made it happen. That was his last big hiring....

 

[AARPSaint]

In reference to the thread title, I think they CAN get back to success with Loomis as GM. Is that likely? I don’t think it’s clear either way—which I suppose is why there are all these responses. In essence, he’s 50% in hiring successful HCs. He manipulated the cap in a clever way, and he SEEMS to have realized that it’s time for a new approach. Drafting lately has been questionable. His trades have been bad, but the Lattimore trade on paper looks decent and could be a good move.

It’s a puzzling evaluation. He seems to have veered away from some of his usual tendencies. I hope that if he continues as GM, he will continue to remove himself from the “We just need a few tweaks” mindset because that’s not where the team is now.

 

[St. Widge]

No, he lucked out 20 yrs ago. Payton is still winning

There is luck involved in every decision anyone makes. But the fact is that he hired Payton and signed Brees which led to one Super Bowl and made the moves to hold the 15 year window open as a championship contender. He also rebuilt the franchise while the city was falling apart around him. If you want to call all that luck okay, but I'd say there is quite a bit of skill involved.

Regardless, I'd be happy to move on to a new GM and Loomis has things he needs to do better, but Loomis is not the terrible GM someone of you think he is just because he made one bad head coaching hire that resulted in 3 mediocre seasons.

 

[porculator]

Signing Kamara for 2 more years lends me to believe that he has learned nothing and is not prepared for the rebuild that the team needs. At best, we have a good RB on a bad team? What does that do other than sell a few jerseys?

Sometimes a sentimental owner can get involved in long-tenured players so I have to wonder if Gayle has been involved in decisions to keep veterans longer than we should.

None of the players with the biggest cap hits on the team (Carr, Kamara, Ramzcyk, Jordan) will be around the next time the team is any good, and there is no reason to look any further than that until it's blown up.