Education / Teaching thread (2 Viewers)

[Swamprat]

My wife is a 4th grade teacher, many of the points brought up by the OP really hit home. Teaching is my wife's dream job, she's wanted to do nothing else but teach these little ones... And she's good at it... Many times nominated for Teacher of the Year and in the one time she submitted the paperwork, she won.

Just last week:

• On average, left the house ~6:30am, got home at 7pm. Then had school work to do at home.
• In the classroom while my wife stepped out to get some papers from another teacher. Boy assaulted (hit) two girls, come to find out one of the girls had been bullying him and he got tired of it.
• They (teachers) are making phones calls to a certain set of parents several times a week. Not ONCE has the parents admitted or acknowledged responsibility on the behalf of their kid for all the different episodes. It's always everyone else's fault. This one kid causes disruptions daily and has zero care about any discipline measures....Different kid then one above.
• Wife tells me with Covid and schooling from home these last couple of years, that these kids are not familiar with expectations of classroom behavior... they try to run wild as that's their calibration.
• On Thursday I received a text message during lunch from the wife.. VERY rare! The question she posed was, "can I quit?"... Again, teaching is her dream job... but she's at her breaking point....along with many other teachers. In +20yrs, she has NEVER said anything remotely close to this...

Subs? It's difficult, if not impossible, to find subs at her school...

 

[gboudx]

I hate to hear that about social issues causing problems.
As far as the days.....the children attend 180 days.....and the teachers work 7 extra days on the front end, and 3 on the back end for 190 total.

Not a bad gig.

So those 190 are the "required" days, but don't include the "actual" days. From what we've seen from my wife's own experience, and from many other teachers in the district, you can probably easily add 25% to that number. Weekends, training/development/lesson planning over the Summer, 12-14 hour weekdays. It adds up to more than 190 days of actual work here.

If teachers only work 190 days in your school district, then that is amazing and I wish more districts would use it as a model.

 

[SWJJ]

So those 190 are the "required" days, but don't include the "actual" days. From what we've seen from my wife's own experience, and from many other teachers in the district, you can probably easily add 25% to that number. Weekends, training/development/lesson planning over the Summer, 12-14 hour weekdays. It adds up to more than 190 days of actual work here.

If teachers only work 190 days in your school district, then that is amazing and I wish more districts would use it as a model.

My experience was closer to your wife's experience. There is SO MUCH WORK brought home, so many late nights. Between lesson planning and grading papers, it was already a LOT before the pandemic. Then many teachers were asked to do both virtual and in person lessons, and in some cases simultaneously. It just has become too much.

It's why there is a national shortage.

Despite what well-meaning principal's who job included retention and recruitment say, there is a LOT of burn out right now.


Even before the pandemic I used to tell people teaching was the hardest professional job I have ever had, making the least amount of money I have ever made.

It's only gotten harder.

 

[saintmdterps]

190 being included like teachers work half as much
avg working day/year 260
obviously more but not twice as much

I have never met a single teacher who works 8-4. They take papers home to grade, work on lesson plans, report cards, and so much more. The students are in school 180-190. Teachers are usually another week after summer dismissal and then return at least a week early for seminars, setting up their rooms, etc.

All this to start at 48k with a masters degree.

 

[saintmdterps]

So those 190 are the "required" days, but don't include the "actual" days. From what we've seen from my wife's own experience, and from many other teachers in the district, you can probably easily add 25% to that number. Weekends, training/development/lesson planning over the Summer, 12-14 hour weekdays. It adds up to more than 190 days of actual work here.

If teachers only work 190 days in your school district, then that is amazing and I wish more districts would use it as a model.

Then there are reports, evening phone calls to parents, documenting those calls answering emails, and the list goes on.

 

[Outbackjack]

So those 190 are the "required" days, but don't include the "actual" days. From what we've seen from my wife's own experience, and from many other teachers in the district, you can probably easily add 25% to that number. Weekends, training/development/lesson planning over the Summer, 12-14 hour weekdays. It adds up to more than 190 days of actual work here.

If teachers only work 190 days in your school district, then that is amazing and I wish more districts would use it as a model.

No…..it’s 190.

Legally, they. Any have you work a day not in your contract without paying….though we do have some fun things on weekends that the PTA uses as fundraisers….(fall festival, bingo night, daddy/daughter dance, arts/music night…..most all teachers attend but aren’t required to.

Actually, you accumulate 1.25 sick days per month….so you get 15 sick days that can be used or banked for retirement.

So technically, it’s 190-15 =175.

Sorry I’m hearing of so many bad situations……it’s a great job when the school is a positive, middle/upper class with lots of parent participation. But the bottom line of it all is kids behaving…..and that comes down to expectations from the parent.

 

[Outbackjack]

Then there are reports, evening phone calls to parents, documenting those calls answering emails, and the list goes on.

I’m telling you someone isn’t being efficient.
Our teachers work 7:15-2:15 school day…..then stay til 4:00 to complete all meetings, headings, etc.
I require them to leave by 4:00 each day, not make calls to parents after 4:00.
Parents know that and honor it too.
If a teacher wants to check email at night, that’s their choice.
But most use the 2:15-4:00 slot to handle all of that….and it works.

 

[saintmdterps]

My wife is a 4th grade teacher, many of the points brought up by the OP really hit home. Teaching is my wife's dream job, she's wanted to do nothing else but teach these little ones... And she's good at it... Many times nominated for Teacher of the Year and in the one time she submitted the paperwork, she won.

Just last week:

• On average, left the house ~6:30am, got home at 7pm. Then had school work to do at home.
• In the classroom while my wife stepped out to get some papers from another teacher. Boy assaulted (hit) two girls, come to find out one of the girls had been bullying him and he got tired of it.
• They (teachers) are making phones calls to a certain set of parents several times a week. Not ONCE has the parents admitted or acknowledged responsibility on the behalf of their kid for all the different episodes. It's always everyone else's fault. This one kid causes disruptions daily and has zero care about any discipline measures....Different kid then one above.
• Wife tells me with Covid and schooling from home these last couple of years, that these kids are not familiar with expectations of classroom behavior... they try to run wild as that's their calibration.
• On Thursday I received a text message during lunch from the wife.. VERY rare! The question she posed was, "can I quit?"... Again, teaching is her dream job... but she's at her breaking point....along with many other teachers. In +20yrs, she has NEVER said anything remotely close to this...

Subs? It's difficult, if not impossible, to find subs at her school...

Oh man she sounds just like my wife. Abby just wants to retire but the pension difference between 26 years and 30 years makes it unrealistic.

 

[saintmdterps]

I’m telling you someone isn’t being efficient.
Our teachers work 7:15-2:15 school day…..then stay til 4:00 to complete all meetings, headings, etc.
I require them to leave by 4:00 each day, not make calls to parents after 4:00.
Parents know that and honor it too.
If a teacher wants to check email at night, that’s their choice.
But most use the 2:15-4:00 slot to handle all of that….and it works.

My wife teaches until 3 then has hall duty until 330. Special Ed is an entirely different realm with regard to documentation. Her caseload is usually about 15-18 and she will be case manager for many of them. IEP can be 20-30 pages with a lot of narrative. Parent calls which have to be transcribed. She averages 50+ hrs per week and still feels like there is much that doesn’t get done.

Due to Covid there is a real staff shortage at her school. As a result everyone wears more than one hat. Rooms need to be cleaned and sanitized, and there are too few janitors.

 

[gboudx]

I’m telling you someone isn’t being efficient.
Our teachers work 7:15-2:15 school day…..then stay til 4:00 to complete all meetings, headings, etc.
I require them to leave by 4:00 each day, not make calls to parents after 4:00.
Parents know that and honor it too.
If a teacher wants to check email at night, that’s their choice.
But most use the 2:15-4:00 slot to handle all of that….and it works.

This really is amazing and I applaud you for how you treat the teachers. Some of the issue may be the principal. The teachers have almost no time for themselves during the day, sometimes no time for a bathroom break and/or eat lunch. They have meetings after school 2 times a week and her typical day is 7:15-5:30. Then home to grade. I tell my wife this does not sound normal, nor should it be considered normal. She teaches at a challenging school. While our ISD and our area is mostly middle/upper middle, her school(in same ISD) is in a poorer area where about 50% of the kids have an unstable home life, and live near or below the poverty line.

 

[Swamprat]

Oh man she sounds just like my wife. Abby just wants to retire but the pension difference between 26 years and 30 years makes it unrealistic.

When she got home, I had supper ready and gave her a big hug.... .Then jokingly told her, "please back away from the edge..."...

That said, plans are in process to get her out of there... we both know this situation is not sustainable without some major wreckage happening.... when the spirit of a person is getting crushed, something must change.

 

[bonnjer]

lots of parent participation. But the bottom line of it all is kids behaving…..and that comes down to expectations from the parent.

This right here is the key. Unfortunately, we have more and more parents with less and less involvement in their kids school / education.

 

[bonnjer]

Well, I think I'll be the other voice.

I am a principal of an public elementary school here in North Georgia......and I absolutely love my job.

Kids are absolutely fantastic.....and for the most part the teachers are very happy and we try hard to keep it that way. They are professionals and I try to be hands off on the inner workings of their classroom, but I know every kid by name (just over 1000).....and I'm just there to steer the ship in the right direction.....and I handle big issues to keep them off of the teachers. We are required to do our fair share of assessments, but that's part of the job. It is in no way killing education.

In our county, beginning teachers make 48,000K

Most in our building are between 10-20 years, and making 60-70K with a masters. It's not too shabby considering that's for 190 days of work.

As a principal with 30 years, I make a little over 100K working 210 days.

But more than anything, our kids are very well behaved, our families are very involved, and county is supportive, our teachers are dedicated and happy, its a good situation.

I am eligible to retire, but I stay very young in this job, and it's a happy place.

For those stressing in their jobs, I feel sorry for you. Life's too short to not like what you're doing for whatever reason.

Thank you for sharing this side of it. Yes, a great administration does help things massively. I work at a school that has been a school performance score of A over the last several years and I do love my school. I've been there for most of my teaching career. We have pretty good parental involvement, but we're a smaller, rural school. My situation is probably not the norm.

Even with my situation, I see too many trends in education that are just no good. I can't imagine being a new teacher or someone about graduate from college with a degree in education. There's no way that I could make it a career. It's highly discouraging.

 

[Swamprat]

I’m telling you someone isn’t being efficient.
Our teachers work 7:15-2:15 school day…..then stay til 4:00 to complete all meetings, headings, etc.
I require them to leave by 4:00 each day, not make calls to parents after 4:00.
Parents know that and honor it too.
If a teacher wants to check email at night, that’s their choice.
But most use the 2:15-4:00 slot to handle all of that….and it works.

I think gboudx and I are living damn similar lives... the situation he describes is practically a mirror image to ours..

And Outbackjack, kudos to you for taking care of your team. Much respect for staying on top of things and keeping the ship running in the right direction.. I guarantee you, your teachers appreciate it.

I can tell you one person in our situation that is not efficient or effective and that is the principal. In my work, I've seen good management and poor management and from everything I hear and see with the principal, she's absolutely not up to the role she's been placed in. I've lost count of how many times I'm speechless and in disbelief by what goes on there and the complete absence of support and/or leadership... My wife has been taking stride for years to "keep teaching those babies..because they need to learn" but it's worn her down and has become too much.

I'm shocked/surprised the ISD still has the principal in the position. This is a top-notch district, but their attention must be elsewhere....

 

[SWJJ]

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