Having a plan for offense and defense. (2 Viewers)

[Innominate]

I'm just a fan. Never played organized football. But I saw something on ESPN today that got me thinking. People talk about coaches and getting the most out of players. Putting players in position to succeed. Having an offensive/ defensive plan. The commentator, who played in the NFL, said the OC, for the game they were dissecting, had a plan and was not just calling plays. It got me to thinking about the LSU 2019 season. Seeing a clip where Joe Brady was asking how a defender reacted to our player during a play and the possible play call to exploit the defense's reactions.

I guess my question out of all that is, do all teams do this? Are some just better than others? Or do some just call plays like backyard football? I have nothing to back this up, but I feel like we are just calling plays.

 

[BreesusSaves]

The Saints are absolutely just calling plays with no method, no plan, no clue. On offense and defense, they are sunk.

This is what happen when you have a drowning defensive head coach and a donut for an offensive coordinator.

 

[efil4stnias]

All do.

Some excel and some simply can't. (For myriad of reasons).

But the really good ones make it a point to create mismatches, put defenses in a bind and call a play to set up the next play. Some of the neatest stuff I've seen is when an OC calls a play with a specific formation, gets a defensive look he wasn't expecting and later in the game calls same play, but on sideline adjusts a route or two to take advantage of that defensive scheme.

Sean was a master of this. Shanahan in SF. McDaniel in Miami. Some OCs just see the chess board differently than others and it makes them special.

 

[Wheelo]

They do... The team has been fine with their adjustments in-game despite all the criticism they're receiving. The main areas of weakness are currently being exposed because we're not a disciplined team. We do stupid stuff on important areas of the field or in critical situations. It makes us look much more incompetent than we really are and we're consistent with the ineptitude to be resilient.

 

[jahsoul357]

Sean was a master of this. Shanahan in SF. McDaniel in Miami. Some OCs just see the chess board differently than others and it makes them special.

Can forget Andy Reid. Mahomes stay at the bottom of air yard stats and the Chiefs stay near the top of the league in 20+ yard plays. Genius.

 

[SweetT]

They do... The team has been fine with their adjustments in-game despite all the criticism they're receiving. The main areas of weakness are currently being exposed because we're not a disciplined team. We do stupid stuff on important areas of the field or in critical situations. It makes us look much more incompetent than we really are and we're consistent with the ineptitude to be resilient.

I don’t see it that way. There is a clear disconnect between the concept of the play that is called, how the various players interpret it, and obviously the execution. MT alluded to this a few times, in regards to the Olave situation a few weeks back. For this offense to “click”, there are very tiny nuances that all players must get down. If someone doesn’t run it perfectly, then it won’t work that well for any player who is the clear target. Thats why it was so hard for many of our past WRs to grasp the offense and not to mention the terminology of it. With that being said, we are in this constant fight with ourselves, trying to run these plays in game. Basically, it’s like we are stuck on “practicing” it in game time, not having it down to a science yet. There are no in game adjustments. We are just out there trying to figure out our own mess, hence why we are stuck in neutral. Then, throw in stupid penalties and abandoning what works well, along with ridiculous down and distance calls. We are easy pickings for a defense, especially when we break ourselves, so they don’t have to do it. They just reap the benefits. I could be off, but that’s what I’m seeing.

 

[SweetT]

Can forget Andy Reid. Mahomes stay at the bottom of air yard stats and the Chiefs stay near the top of the league in 20+ yard plays. Genius.

Is it really Andy Reid or is Mahomes just flat out that elite? I’d venture out to say it’s more Mahomes than Andy. Mahomes makes some unbelievable throws like I’ve never seen before and he is exceptional at making positive plays, when a pocket collapses, or the play breaks down.

 

[meily]

The better teams plays to the strength of the players and what they do best, that's both on offense and defense.

 

[jahsoul357]

Is it really Andy Reid or is Mahomes just flat out that elite? I’d venture out to say it’s more Mahomes than Andy. Mahomes makes some unbelievable throws like I’ve never seen before and he is exceptional at making positive plays, when a pocket collapses, or the play breaks down.

The VAST majority of the throws that Mahomes throws are the same ones that Alex Smith did. He has elite escapability but when you look at actual Chiefs games, you see that the vast majority of his passes are short passes to receivers wide open in space. He will have intermediate throws here and there but that system relies on YAC. Mahomes has attempted 411 passes and in throws that weren't spiked, batted, or thrown away, 284 of those passes were from behind the line to 10 yards out, 70 from 10-20 yards, and 38 from 20+. If we break those down on a per game bases, he is averaging roughly 36 passes a game and, on average, 26 of those passes are less than 10 yards. The vast majority are either behind the line or from 3-7 yards. A lot of people take this as a dig against him but nah, he is playing great in a system that allows him to produce. He makes crazy throws but it is his ability to escape that sets him apart. That and Andy Reid gave him the green light.

Truthfully though, a lot of people will not want to open Pandora's Box as it relates to positive plays when the pocket collapses or breaks down...lol

 

[Rouxble]

Can forget Andy Reid. Mahomes stay at the bottom of air yard stats and the Chiefs stay near the top of the league in 20+ yard plays. Genius.

They are definitely having a down year in that category, currently ranked 22nd for 20+ yard plays. They were 1st last year, but this year they only have two more 20+ yard plays than we do.

 

[Rouxble]

The VAST majority of the throws that Mahomes throws are the same ones that Alex Smith did. He has elite escapability but when you look at actual Chiefs games, you see that the vast majority of his passes are short passes to receivers wide open in space. He will have intermediate throws here and there but that system relies on YAC. Mahomes has attempted 411 passes and in throws that weren't spiked, batted, or thrown away, 284 of those passes were from behind the line to 10 yards out, 70 from 10-20 yards, and 38 from 20+. If we break those down on a per game bases, he is averaging roughly 36 passes a game and, on average, 26 of those passes are less than 10 yards. The vast majority are either behind the line or from 3-7 yards. A lot of people take this as a dig against him but nah, he is playing great in a system that allows him to produce. He makes crazy throws but it is his ability to escape that sets him apart. That and Andy Reid gave him the green light.

Truthfully though, a lot of people will not want to open Pandora's Box as it relates to positive plays when the pocket collapses or breaks down...lol

Random Mahomes stat, he has led the league in the number of TD passes thrown behind the LOS every year he was a starter except 2019 (Rodgers beat him by one that year). Clearly he is the leader for the span from 2018-2023.

So YAC plus TD’s on those short throws, wish we had more of that here.

 

[SweetT]

The VAST majority of the throws that Mahomes throws are the same ones that Alex Smith did. He has elite escapability but when you look at actual Chiefs games, you see that the vast majority of his passes are short passes to receivers wide open in space. He will have intermediate throws here and there but that system relies on YAC. Mahomes has attempted 411 passes and in throws that weren't spiked, batted, or thrown away, 284 of those passes were from behind the line to 10 yards out, 70 from 10-20 yards, and 38 from 20+. If we break those down on a per game bases, he is averaging roughly 36 passes a game and, on average, 26 of those passes are less than 10 yards. The vast majority are either behind the line or from 3-7 yards. A lot of people take this as a dig against him but nah, he is playing great in a system that allows him to produce. He makes crazy throws but it is his ability to escape that sets him apart. That and Andy Reid gave him the green light.

Truthfully though, a lot of people will not want to open Pandora's Box as it relates to positive plays when the pocket collapses or breaks down...lol

I wouldn’t put too much stock into those pass attempts from this year or last year. Dude has been working with some real lackluster receivers, excluding Kelce obviously. Plus, the Chiefs has been void of a true running game since Kareem Hunt left. Smith had 3 seasons with RBs that went over 1K yards, 1 season with over 900 yards, and 1 season over 600. Mahomes has never had a 1K rusher. Only 3 seasons with an 800 yard rusher, 1 season with a guy over 500 yards, and 1 season of a just below 500 yard runner. He’s been working with essentially no run game. For his entire career, his team has been 1 dimensional. Reid has a good system, and he’s a good HC, but it is certified bc of Mahomes. A QB like Alex Smith only gets you so far. A QB like Mahomes gets you s and also gets you right there in the Conference Championship. It’s a good marriage, but without Mahomes, Reid is ringless. No QB should be that great, that fast. Although I will say, that what Andy did with Alex Smith was something to marvel at. He definitely tapped into his potential and helped him overachieve in KC.

 

[SweetT]

Random Mahomes stat, he has led the league in the number of TD passes thrown behind the LOS every year he was a starter except 2019 (Rodgers beat him by one that year). Clearly he is the leader for the span from 2018-2023.

So YAC plus TD’s on those short throws, wish we had more of that here.

That offense is predicated on speed. Plus, when you have/had a cheat code like Tyreek Hill, you can run those high percentage passes, and let the elusiveness of the player do the heavy lifting. No different than how SP/Drew utilized AK41 in the passing game or how the Patriots ran WR pick/run plays to free up their shifty WRs. You run it until the defense stops it.

 

[Rexman100]

I'm just a fan. Never played organized football. But I saw something on ESPN today that got me thinking. People talk about coaches and getting the most out of players. Putting players in position to succeed. Having an offensive/ defensive plan. The commentator, who played in the NFL, said the OC, for the game they were dissecting, had a plan and was not just calling plays. It got me to thinking about the LSU 2019 season. Seeing a clip where Joe Brady was asking how a defender reacted to our player during a play and the possible play call to exploit the defense's reactions.

I guess my question out of all that is, do all teams do this? Are some just better than others? Or do some just call plays like backyard football? I have nothing to back this up, but I feel like we are just calling plays.

They all do. A good example is when an elite Cb gets injured, the opposing team usually targets the back up early and often. I think we targeted an Indy Cb all game for that reason.

 

[jahsoul357]

I wouldn’t put too much stock into those pass attempts from this year or last year. Dude has been working with some real lackluster receivers, excluding Kelce obviously. Plus, the Chiefs has been void of a true running game since Kareem Hunt left. Smith had 3 seasons with RBs that went over 1K yards, 1 season with over 900 yards, and 1 season over 600. Mahomes has never had a 1K rusher. Only 3 seasons with an 800 yard rusher, 1 season with a guy over 500 yards, and 1 season of a just below 500 yard runner. He’s been working with essentially no run game. For his entire career, his team has been 1 dimensional. Reid has a good system, and he’s a good HC, but it is certified bc of Mahomes. A QB like Alex Smith only gets you so far. A QB like Mahomes gets you s and also gets you right there in the Conference Championship. It’s a good marriage, but without Mahomes, Reid is ringless. No QB should be that great, that fast. Although I will say, that what Andy did with Alex Smith was something to marvel at. He definitely tapped into his potential and helped him overachieve in KC.

Actually, this isn't a 1 or 2 season thing. This has been how it has been for his entire career. I always make the joke that Mahomes is 2017 Alex Smith with a green light. Something that a lot of people miss about Andy Reid's offense was the biggest benefit was building the system around Tyreek Hill being WR1. He seriously opened that offense up.

The crazy thing is you said that Alex Smith can only get you so far but then turn around and say Mahomes is underperforming because of the talent that he has around him. Care to name the 2013-2016 Chiefs receiving corp?