How Much turnover/devolopment Needed for new Coaching Schemes? (21 Viewers)

[platinumvinnyv]

I’m not sure if this has been posted before. If I miss it, I apologize

Looking at current team make up and incoming schemes I’m curious of how much turnover/development is needed before it feels we have the right players in the right position?

So offensively, all teams start with Offensive line, so I’ll skip that for now, but I understand if we don’t have Oline we are not going to be good period. With that out of the way, I watch a few cowboys’ games and barely any Eagles game with Moore at Off Coordinator. But it seems most of his success came when having a mobile QB, Dak and Hurtz, a very talented possession receiver Lamb/Cooper and AJ Brown and of course running Game. But in those first 2 positions I was wondering How critical are the mobility of the QB needed in his scheme, and can Olave fill that position?

Defensively I was reading the forum and saw a chart that the new Def though multifront leans more 3-4 base but called nickel more time than not. Besides our inside LB I don’t see many in the current front 7 that, in my opinion, would play well in a 3-4. Really relying on DLine to be strong enough to set the point and allow LB to do their work was not shown last year. They seem to get moved quite easily. Saints were ranked 30th in rushing and were built to play 4-3 which they didn’t do well. I remember Rob Ryan took a year to get his 3-4 going so I feel it’s not going to be a smooth transition.

I will be honest after the Rams miss call, 97% of the NFL I watch is the Saints, I watch almost every Saints game, but usually nothing else. I used to be a big fan of NFL football, but I have been losing interest, so I have very limited knowledge of how these new coaches operate.

 

[Grumpy Old Manatee]

42%

 

[WhoDat?DrewDat]

I’m not sure if this has been posted before. If I miss it, I apologize

Looking at current team make up and incoming schemes I’m curious of how much turnover/development is needed before it feels we have the right players in the right position?

So offensively, all teams start with Offensive line, so I’ll skip that for now, but I understand if we don’t have Oline we are not going to be good period. With that out of the way, I watch a few cowboys’ games and barely any Eagles game with Moore at Off Coordinator. But it seems most of his success came when having a mobile QB, Dak and Hurtz, a very talented possession receiver Lamb/Cooper and AJ Brown and of course running Game. But in those first 2 positions I was wondering How critical are the mobility of the QB needed in his scheme, and can Olave fill that position?

Defensively I was reading the forum and saw a chart that the new Def though multifront leans more 3-4 base but called nickel more time than not. Besides our inside LB I don’t see many in the current front 7 that, in my opinion, would play well in a 3-4. Really relying on DLine to be strong enough to set the point and allow LB to do their work was not shown last year. They seem to get moved quite easily. Saints were ranked 30th in rushing and were built to play 4-3 which they didn’t do well. I remember Rob Ryan took a year to get his 3-4 going so I feel it’s not going to be a smooth transition.

I'm sure i'll get a lot of flack for this but I honestly think we have a bottom 5 roster in the NFL as far as talent. And maybe the worst defensive roster in the NFL.

Our best player is our center who is a stud but unfortunately dealing with injuries.
Fuaga looks really promising.
Penning while playable is still awful as a pass protector and lead the entire league in pressures given up.
Ruiz isn't anything special.
We have a wide open spot at LG.
QB is a lower middle tier guy who needs an excellent supporting cast to succeed which we don't have.
Olave is a great #2 reciever but unfortunately not an alpha type and is one hit away from retirement. Rasheed is a great #3 speed guy.
Our TEs are nothing special.

Our defense is a legit disaster due to our poor drafting.
Nobody in our front 4 is a difference maker. Granderson is our best DLman but he's just a guy. Bresee has nice sack numbers but he's borderline unplayable due to how awful he is against the run. The rest of the guys are just bodies.
Demario has been our hero for the past what seems like forever but unfortunately father time is undefeated and he's been showing serious signs of slowing down. We also have no backup for him.
Werner is a good player but nothing special.
Alontae has had back to back terrible years in coverage. KA seems like a promising young guy but it's TBD.
Our safety's are rough. Matheiu is well past his prime and we have nobody else that's even decent.

We also don't have any cap space to sign FAs.

I don't see this team winning more than 5 games next year unless we face really injured teams.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

I’m not sure if this has been posted before. If I miss it, I apologize

Looking at current team make up and incoming schemes I’m curious of how much turnover/development is needed before it feels we have the right players in the right position?

So offensively, all teams start with Offensive line, so I’ll skip that for now, but I understand if we don’t have Oline we are not going to be good period. With that out of the way, I watch a few cowboys’ games and barely any Eagles game with Moore at Off Coordinator. But it seems most of his success came when having a mobile QB, Dak and Hurtz, a very talented possession receiver Lamb/Cooper and AJ Brown and of course running Game. But in those first 2 positions I was wondering How critical are the mobility of the QB needed in his scheme, and can Olave fill that position?

Defensively I was reading the forum and saw a chart that the new Def though multifront leans more 3-4 base but called nickel more time than not. Besides our inside LB I don’t see many in the current front 7 that, in my opinion, would play well in a 3-4. Really relying on DLine to be strong enough to set the point and allow LB to do their work was not shown last year. They seem to get moved quite easily. Saints were ranked 30th in rushing and were built to play 4-3 which they didn’t do well. I remember Rob Ryan took a year to get his 3-4 going so I feel it’s not going to be a smooth transition.

I will be honest after the Rams miss call, 97% of the NFL I watch is the Saints, I watch almost every Saints game, but usually nothing else. I used to be a big fan of NFL football, but I have been losing interest, so I have very limited knowledge of how these new coaches operate.

Because of the modern NFL you build a defense from the back/forward. So I wouldn't be as pressed about how guys fit on the Dline. You can figure out how best to utilize those guys. More imporantly is we have an issue a S and CB until we get Adebo resigned. Taylor is your money guy and I'm assuming McKinstry was drafted to be Lattimores replacement.

As Roux pointed out you're looking at a 4-2-5 big nickel as your base defense. So the whole 3-4 thing is being overhyped and overblown. You'll be in that 4-2-5 over 5060/% of the time and you'll be in dime another 20% of the time. You'll only spend about 20% of your time in base 3-4 and another 10% in some other front.

 

[3ParStillDriver]

There is nothing here but wild speculation.

Most people are going to look at defense, but its far more complicated than that. We haven't any idea what blocking scheme will be implemented offensively and who will fit Moore's requirements. For all we know, Penning ends the year as our best Olineman and McCoy becomes our weakest link.

 

[3ParStillDriver]

Because of the modern NFL you build a defense from the back/forward. So I wouldn't be as pressed about how guys fit on the Dline. You can figure out how best to utilize those guys. More imporantly is we have an issue a S and CB until we get Adebo resigned. Taylor is your money guy and I'm assuming McKinstry was drafted to be Lattimores replacement.

As Roux pointed out you're looking at a 4-2-5 big nickel as your base defense. So the whole 3-4 thing is being overhyped and overblown. You'll be in that 4-2-5 over 5060/% of the time and you'll be in dime another 20% of the time. You'll only spend about 20% of your time in base 3-4 and another 10% in some other front.

There was a small gap of time, maybe 10 years where that was true. But defensively we're back to the front 7 needing to be solid over secondary. The NFL is transitioning to a run league more so then pass now, due to the golden era of QB's all retired and very, very few QB's capable of passing their will. Burrow and Stafford are probably the last of that legacy. Even Mahomes can't exact his will over defenses passing all the time the way Brees, Brady, Manning, Rodgers (in his prime), Rivers and so many others could who were around from 2007 to 2018

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

There was a small gap of time, maybe 10 years where that was true. But defensively we're back to the front 7 needing to be solid over secondary. The NFL is transitioning to a run league more so then pass now, due to the golden era of QB's all retired and very, very few QB's capable of passing their will. Burrow is probably the last of that legacy.

Prove it. Show me teams that are spending more time in base as early as last year. Or better yet...show me the data where offenses are spending over 60% of the time in base personnel. My guess is you'll find that 3WR formations are still more prevalent and there isn't a DC in his right mind that would defend 3WR's from a base front.

 

[3ParStillDriver]

Prove it. Show me teams that are spending more time in base as early as last year.

I don't care what defenses are using for formations. Run plays are more common then pass. And for the most part its been growing. You're capable of using google. Have fun with it.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

I don't care what defenses are using for formations. Run plays are more common then pass. And for the most part its been growing. You're capable of using google. Have fun with it.

Prove it. Show wehre teams are running over 60% of the time lol. I'm not wasting my time googling something you can't prove. When you can prove what you're saying is accurate then I'll research it.

 

[platinumvinnyv]

There is nothing here but wild speculation.

Most people are going to look at defense, but its far more complicated than that. We haven't any idea what blocking scheme will be implemented offensively and who will fit Moore's requirements. For all we know, Penning ends the year as our best Olineman and McCoy becomes our weakest link.

Yes That is exactly what I was asking for to fans of the forum what is their speculation of what we running based on past events and previous stints. I am on a saints forum asking saints fans for they fan opinion if I wanted 100% clarity I just wait until september. The whole fun of being a fan in the off season is speculation.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

Yes That is exactly what I was asking for to fans the forum what is their speculation of what we running based on past events and previous stints. I am on a saints forum asking saints fans for they fan opinion if I wanted 100% clarity I just wait until september. The whole fun of being a fan in the off season is speculation.

That's his way of saying I don't have anything concrete to offer to the conversatoin but what I can offer is that anything anyone here says other than me is just speculating.

 

[WhoDat?DrewDat]

Because of the modern NFL you build a defense from the back/forward.

Couldnt disagree more. You build your defense from your DLine first and foremost.

 

[platinumvinnyv]

Because of the modern NFL you build a defense from the back/forward. So I wouldn't be as pressed about how guys fit on the Dline. You can figure out how best to utilize those guys. More imporantly is we have an issue a S and CB until we get Adebo resigned. Taylor is your money guy and I'm assuming McKinstry was drafted to be Lattimores replacement.

As Roux pointed out you're looking at a 4-2-5 big nickel as your base defense. So the whole 3-4 thing is being overhyped and overblown. You'll be in that 4-2-5 over 5060/% of the time and you'll be in dime another 20% of the time. You'll only spend about 20% of your time in base 3-4 and another 10% in some other front.

So similar Alignment to DA scheme, So their probably wont be as much change as I thought alignment wise

Prove it. Show wehre teams are running over 60% of the time lol. I'm not wasting my time googling something you can't prove. When you can prove what you're saying is accurate then I'll research it.

Dont worry I got you, only team that ran close to 60% was eagles and 4 more teams rushed more then pass the other 27 teams passed more then they rush

NFL Run/Pass Ratios - 2024

Run/Pass ratios for the 2024 NFL season.

fftoday.com

 

[platinumvinnyv]

I'm sure i'll get a lot of flack for this but I honestly think we have a bottom 5 roster in the NFL as far as talent. And maybe the worst defensive roster in the NFL.

Our best player is our center who is a stud but unfortunately dealing with injuries.
Fuaga looks really promising.
Penning while playable is still awful as a pass protector and lead the entire league in pressures given up.
Ruiz isn't anything special.
We have a wide open spot at LG.
QB is a lower middle tier guy who needs an excellent supporting cast to succeed which we don't have.
Olave is a great #2 reciever but unfortunately not an alpha type and is one hit away from retirement. Rasheed is a great #3 speed guy.
Our TEs are nothing special.

Our defense is a legit disaster due to our poor drafting.
Nobody in our front 4 is a difference maker. Granderson is our best DLman but he's just a guy. Bresee has nice sack numbers but he's borderline unplayable due to how awful he is against the run. The rest of the guys are just bodies.
Demario has been our hero for the past what seems like forever but unfortunately father time is undefeated and he's been showing serious signs of slowing down. We also have no backup for him.
Werner is a good player but nothing special.
Alontae has had back to back terrible years in coverage. KA seems like a promising young guy but it's TBD.
Our safety's are rough. Matheiu is well past his prime and we have nobody else that's even decent.

We also don't have any cap space to sign FAs.

I don't see this team winning more than 5 games next year unless we face really injured teams.

I dont think you should get flak, I think we are better then 5-12 only because last year was as bad as I seen the saints in a long time and we still manage to win 5 games through coaching changes, injuries and starting a 5th rookie a handful of games. If anything with Coaching I feel we should see improvement no?

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

So similar Alignment to DA scheme, So their probably wont be as much change as I thought alignment wise


Dont worry I got you, only team that ran close to 60% was eagles and 4 more teams rushed more then pass the other 27 teams passed more then they rush

NFL Run/Pass Ratios - 2024

Run/Pass ratios for the 2024 NFL season.

fftoday.com

Ironically all 5 of those teams have Running QB's so calling designed runs to the QB probably goes into that. I'm not saying what @3ParStillDriver said was wrong, I can absolutely see the league transitioning back to being more run heavy...but that's not going to happen in 2025 alone. As your data proved Majority of teams are and will be pass first. Furthermore the Saints don't have the ability to redesign to a 3-4 heavy front in one year either. So you have to play to the strengths of the players you have.

We've got more talent in the secondary so it makes sense to be in nickel more. then you decide what you're front will be to support that.

FWIW it also goes deeper than just run pass %. How many of those runs came from base personnel and how many came from 3 or more WR sets? Even though a team is running, if they are running out of a 3WR set you'd be foolish to align in base front because if they pass you're at a disadvantage.