I'm worried about The Who Dat! Nation (1 Viewer)

[O MAN]

Don't forget,... in no way am I challenging anyone's loyalty to the Saints.


My options moving forward are mine, as is my beliefs.

 

[renegadewa]

Don't forget,... in no way am I challenging anyone's loyalty to the Saints. Nor do I believe that the decision to walk away would be easy for anyone. But I do believe that those who are convinced that there is fixing and/or favoritism in NFL games will continuously be renewed in their conviction after each & every bad call from now to the end of the league.

A person will either have to believe they can trust the games to be legitimate or they have to assume that every outcome was possibly due to favoritism by someone who has the power to control such things. And if a person continues to watch games that they believe are fixed, then this would infer that they are somehow entertained by fake sporting events. I mean, can a person watch a game and conclude that it was a legitimate game only because they did not see any questionable calls? What about the remaining games on that team's schedule? Can you accept the 'well officiated games' and throw out the ones that looked like there was favorable calls for the other team?

I don't know how someone can be a fan of any football team if they conclude that some games may not be legit. But since this is an issue that each person will have to resolve in their own mind, I just hope that the negative or questionable thoughts do not keep spilling over onto the Super Saints Forum from people who never believed in their own mind that they were going to be watching a fair product. How would that be comfortable to those who want to believe that they can trust the games are decided fairly? And how can the Who Dat! Nation stay intact if we have this huge difference of opinions about what's real and what is fake?

I don't see how it can be both ways with anyone. It's either legit, or it's not. Each person must decide for him/her self.

I understand what you are saying but what you need to understand as well is that I can't and will never believe that all games are fixed and rigged but the fact remains that if it is only one game that falls into that column then it's one game too many!! How can we ever trust the NFL to "get it right" again when they won't even own up to this one?

Lets also try not to forget that just a few short hours after the Saints got jobbed the Chiefs got hosed pretty hard as well when the Chiefs were called for the worst roughing the passer penalty I've ever seen which gave the Pats a new set of downs and they were able to march down and put points on the board.

It was just too many suspicious coincidences that happened in those two games considering the cities and teams involved.

My mind may change and who knows but for me right now the NFL can suck eggs!!

 

[shaihulud]

You know, once upon a time, Boxing was the hot sport on television. That lasted until the cheating became so obvious that fans simply rejected the sport.

The 'No-Call' is a prime example of cheating being officially ignored and affecting the outcome. I no longer trust the NFL to provide honest play. It'll be one game after another altered because it's either rigged (which I doubt) or because the level of cheating has exceeded the ability of refs to keep the game honest.

The cheater was not shunned, No, he was congratulated by his teammates. No referees were fired, the League wants the whole thing to just go away, and the Saints and their fans are told to just suck it up and trust that next year will be better.

I read today that enrollment for HS football is significantly lower this year. Let that be the harbinger of what's to come. With all the brain damage and dishonesty in the NFL, it's hard to see the difference between boxing's demise and the decline I expect for the NFL.

 

[Treybad]

Love the Who Dat Nation and the Saints but this NO CALL is really a pain in my heart right now... I love football but they way the NFL and Goodell has handled this whole situation, really has me thinking if I should even stop watching the Saints, their part of the NFL.... I surely dont want to experience this again and I have no faith in NFL in its current situation... Just hoping something is done before next season but even then, I have such a bad taste left in my mouth that probably want ever go away till Goodell is gone.... maybe if i skip the combine-draft-preseason, my addiction to football will overcome for me to watch the Saints... time will only tell...

 

[insidejob]

However, I believe those officials are the best available and decided to ignore the obvious for a reason and the most likely reason is Goodell, considering his behavior since the incident.

Eggggggzactly. Why is he going so far as to lie about talking to Saints players after the game, orchestrating his press conference to disallow questions about that game except for the one he designated to his bountygate lapdog, Jeff Duncan. No other questions would have been asked if other national reporters didn't abandon their questions to ask follow up questions about the biggest no call in NFL history. Why didn't he release any statement whatsoever about the call, even after not allowing the questions to be asked that everyone wants answered?

I think this is the beginning of his demise. Bountygate, deflategate, etc. only hurt the clubs affected. This is going to hurt the whole league (owners). They're the ones who opened up the possibility for conspiracy theories, which really aren't that far fetched based on the evidence we saw with our own two eyes, by keeping him in power because he kept making them money, but this could really cost them some money. Now no fans will trust that their games are being called on an equal playing field. This is a "you can't put the crap back in the horse" situation.

For a man who preached out his arse about integrity when banning Payton for a year and ignorance not being an excuse, he sure has failed miserably at both himself. Then there's the continued coverups of domestic violence situations, Kareem Hunt just being the latest example. He covers things up and only addresses them (over and over again - obviously learning nothing from Ray Rice and the fallout from that) when TMZ or some other organization puts up video evidence of the cover up. Even after that, he still announced no punishment for what Hunt would have to face if the Chiefs weren't to have cut him or for the team that is going to sign him this year. It's supposedly a 6 game minimum, but where's the fine and loss of draft picks for the Chiefs for knowing about this and covering it up as long as they could? Oh, that's right, he was complicit in covering it up with the Chiefs!

The owners have to have come close to their breaking point in dealing with his inability to even hold himself to the integrity standard he's put on players and coaches - especially at a price tag of over $40MM/year. Hopefully, the sweet Mrs. Benson can push some owners to the side of righteousness and they can fire his arse this off-season.

 

[Kris]

Hey... I absolutely respect your decision. And the fact that you will not allow yourself to be a hypocrite is worthy of imitation. As I mentioned, we all have to choose between two options. Trust that it's real and continue to follow and support the league... or believe it's just a big manipulated sham and wave adios to the farce that it is.

If someone tries to fall somewhere in the middle, they are merely fans of the WWE.
People must be true to themselves about what they really believe.

How can you not at the very least "fall in the middle"? For the last few years the NFL has used the officials to "keep games close" for Television ratings. That really can't be denied. Just like the old "Championship wrestling" one team is getting destroyed, yet suddenly finds the "key" to moving the ball in the third quarter to bring it close at the end. Look at the scores for the past few years. Does anyone actually believe that there is that level of "parity" in the NFL? I'm sorry, that is a leap that only a faith based believer could make. I always figured they kept it close (the last few years) for ratings but the better team prevailed the majority of the time because they really did not have player ability parity. I noticed some games were pre ordained, but even they just had officiating bias (lots of Dallas games) and the better team usually won.

The NFL pushed too hard to get the Rams in the BIG game. It started with the Philly game that the Saints were not supposed to win, but they won anyway. When in the Rams game the Saints still had the audacity to be winning even with the biased officiating they rtamped it up starting at the end of the third quarter. The Saints still had the temerity to be winning so they pushed so hard to control the winner it became obvious with the "no call" and the "no calls" in overtime.

I'm hanging around watching the fallout, but disappointed that the NFL is winning. Only Saints fans are truly hangin on to this and I see all these posts mitigating the NFL and the unknown retired ref who says it was just one bad official and another not so good official while ignoring all of the other biased calls in the two games especially the last quarter and overtime of the NFC fake Championship. It is sad to see so many Saints fans on this site falling for that crap!

I am done with the NFL and will not watch it including the Saints next year. I am DVRing the Super Bowl only to watch Marroon 5. The only thing that would keep me as an NFL fan is for the league to fire Goddell (SIC), fire those officiating crewmen, and say that they have taken a wrong direction in the NFL (without specifying or admitting anything) and that with new leadership they will strive foremost to improve the integrity of the game.

Kris

 

[SigFreudianSlip]

I've never watched wrestling. I do not think it is all that difficult to recognize it as a phony exhibition. But if someone is entertained by fake fights and rowdiness inside & outside the ring, then have at it!

But football is my game. I've never seen it as being perfect either by the way it's played or by the way it is officiated. While not wishing to give any credence to Roger Badell, I have always been able to write off even major officiating blunders as being the common imperfections that are part of an imperfect human activity.

Despite the gravity of this particular blunder, I can reasonably accept that this egregious non-call was the result of a 'perfect storm' of events. Not the least of these was the assembling of a 'dream team' of referees to officiate the games. I know that personally I have been put in situations in my past where I was intimidated to question someone else's judgment about something.

I fully believe that Mr Cavaletto should have seen & called the infractions that took place next to him just as adamantly as he refused to accept that these things actually took place. Is there reasons to question his call and his motives? ABSOLUTELY! But I can also accept some distinct possibilities that went into his erroneous decision.

One is that I truly believe the officials went into that game trying their level best not to 'over-flag' the game. Part of the proof for my reasoning is how many opportunities that were noted by both fan bases where infractions could/should have been appropriate to be flagged. Both the Saints and the Rams escaped having these questionable penalties enforced throughout the game. Had there been a mandate to show favorable bias toward the Rams, we would have seen more of these 'no-calls' enforced against the Saints... when in fact the Rams were actually the more penalized team in that game.

But probably the bigger issue of the two was the physical position of Mr Cavaletto as the pass from Drew approached the players & infractions in front of him. While Mt Turner (Ref #13) would have been in a MUCH better position to see the timing of the hit to TLL in relation to the arrival of the football, Mr Cavaletto did not have that same advantage. Being essentially behind Lewis, his concern about the question of timing would have been much easier to arrive at a judgment of "Bang-Bang" than should have those watching from the side angles.

But from his position, not only would he have been at a disadvantage to note that critical timing of the impact, it may also have been less likely that he would have seen whether it was Robey-Coleman's hands or head that first contacted Lewis. Trying to couple his immediate thoughts about these split second events with the forethought that they were all trying to avoid any/all unnecessary penalties for the whole of the game, this is what I believe led him to make the unwavering judgment that he did.

Of course it only adds to the suspicion that the officials with the good side angles did not try to over-rule his judgment. Though Cavaletto was obviously dead wrong in his call, I actually hold the other two officials MORE at fault for not explaining what they saw rather than allow his initial call to stand. But I believe that much of that issue could be explained by what I mentioned earlier in this overly worded post.

They simply didn't want to make any calls that they didn't HAVE to make in the game. When Cavaletto came over to Turner and said "Bang-Bang", this I believe is why Turner repeated what he said and mouthed the same phrase. "Bang-Bang" right after him. (It was very easy to read his lips even though there was no outside mic that picked up the conversation.)

Turner was quick to allow another Top Rated and Hand Selected official take the responsibility for that decision. Despite having the best position to make the correct call, no one can say for sure where his eyes were focused in those quickly unfolding seconds, and thus he may have been glad to have the other guy be so quick and adamant about his decision. We'll never know for sure what he saw or thought. But the idea is certainly plausible.

So when you take all these possibilities together, it becomes a bit easier for me to see how this could have fallen into the category of being just a horrible call rather than some pre-planned decision to give the Rams the game.

Was Cavaletto's final decision somewhat based on having a greater interest in the Rams over the Saints? Quite possibly. Did his decision keep the Rams hopes alive? Most DEFINITELY! But were those three officials trying to avoid deciding that game at that moment by not pulling out flags for an infraction that they might ordinarily have called in any other game situation? I truly believe that an affirmative answer to this last question is what is the closest thing to the truth.

Yes, the call was wrong. Yes, the Saints got the short end of the stick (again). But I have already concluded to myself that the above issues are what actually happened at the most critical moment of football in Saints history. And because I have come to that conclusion, I believe I will be able to watch future Saints games with the trust that their ability to reach future SuperBowl games will be largely due to the quality of their performance for 18 games for every season that the NFL remains in existence.

If I was not able to convince myself of these things... I would already have shown myself to the door.

Bill,
I’ve always respected you and your takes and this is another take I respect even while I disagree with it.

Sorry I don’t have it in me to type out a very long response, but I just don’t.

Take care Bill and have a great weekend my Who Dat friend. While I fully believe the league is rigged and fake, the Who Dat nation is real. And the bond is strong.

 

[Bill]

Bill,
I’ve always respected you and your takes and this is another take I respect even while I disagree with it.

Sorry I don’t have it in me to type out a very long response, but I just don’t.

Take care Bill and have a great weekend my Who Dat friend. While I fully believe the league is rigged and fake, the Who Dat nation is real. And the bond is strong.

Yes, we are all real and we genuinely love our team.
But some will forever feel differently about what is real on the football field and they will never be able to feel the same way about WINS or LOSSES.

And that saddens me greatly.

 

[O MAN]

Yes, we are all real and we genuinely love our team.
But some will forever feel differently about what is real on the football field and they will never be able to feel the same way about WINS or LOSSES.

And that saddens me greatly.

Bill,

While I feel what you feel, I believe that the world is gray, neither black nor white, and therefore we will end up somewhere between total acceptance and total rejection when all is said and done. I solute you and hope that some good will come from this mess. More importantly, looks like we have identified another good guy on this board.

O MAN

 

[Bill]

I appreciate that.