It appears the Kellen Moore thing may be shaky (34 Viewers)

[JackDiesel]

Saquon wasn’t thought of as our generation’s Barry Sanders in New York because he was that entire offense. Everyone that watched Saquon could see he was arguably the best RB in the league and being wasted.

I can’t speak for everyone, but I know I have historical posts from when he signed with Philly that were basically, “uh oh..” posts.

It's crazy that only 4 other teams considered him as a FA. Texans offered him $11 million, Bears and Chargers considered him but went with other far inferior directions, and the Ravens considered him and went with Derrick Henry.

Top WR's are making $30-$40 million, the best RB's are fighting for $13-16 million. The fact that Barkley had to fight for $13 million is crazy.

The Moneyball aspect of this is insanely interesting. The last 2 years the NFC Super Bowl team featured elite RB play with efficient but average QB play. Everyone is chasing the elite QB/WR duo but that's almost $100 million between two players when you can spend $15 million on an elite RB and invest the difference in the rest of the team.

 

[3ParStillDriver]

It's crazy that only 4 other teams considered him as a FA. Texans offered him $11 million, Bears and Chargers considered him but went with other far inferior directions, and the Ravens considered him and went with Derrick Henry.

Top WR's are making $30-$40 million, the best RB's are fighting for $13-16 million. The fact that Barkley had to fight for $13 million is crazy.

The Moneyball aspect of this is insanely interesting. The last 2 years the NFC Super Bowl team featured elite RB play with efficient but average QB play. Everyone is chasing the elite QB/WR duo but that's almost $100 million between two players when you can spend $15 million on an elite RB and invest the difference in the rest of the team.

It seems off how RB's make so little compared to other WR's. But the simple truth is that position is over-saturated with talent with average-above average talent. On the flip side of that, your point still stands. Barkley is a RB talent unlike any other RB currently in the league (and may soon be joined by Jeanty). So it stands to reason he should probably make 20 or so million a year. But teams would rather spend more in other positions because they are not saturated in talent.

Its crazy. Yes. But coaches follow trends in the market. The market is wrong. That much is clear and we're seeing it first hand the difference a top talent at RB makes on a good offense that has passing and blocking talent vs an offense that doesn't have passing or blocking talent.

And right now, every coach and GM in the league is looking at Barkley, and what he's done for the Eagles offense and saying "Oh". Barkley may doing exactly what's needed to get the market to pivot a bit more towards a focus on top tier RB talent just like it has for QB, WR, EDGE and CB's.

You have to remember, it wasn't long ago that offenses thrived off of timing offenses with a plethora of what may just be considered the golden era for NFL QB's. During this time RB's weren't needed at a premium because it was so easy (or the QB talent was so commonly good) that offenses were moving the ball just fine passing. Now they're not and we're seeing offenses pivot back into running the ball more.

Its a game of rock, paper scissors that plays out very slowly. But its still rock, paper scissors none-the less. RB's are coming back into flavors of the year because the passing talent of QB's is just not good at all overall compared to 2008-2018'ish.

 

[JackDiesel]

It seems off how RB's make so little compared to other WR's. But the simple truth is that position is over-saturated with talent with average-above average talent. On the flip side of that, your point still stands. Barkley is a RB talent unlike any other RB currently in the league (and may soon be joined by Jeanty). So it stands to reason he should probably make 20 or so million a year. But teams would rather spend more in other positions because they are not saturated in talent.

Its crazy. Yes. But coaches follow trends in the market. The market is wrong. That much is clear and we're seeing it first hand the difference a top talent at RB makes on a good offense that has passing and blocking talent vs an offense that doesn't have passing or blocking talent.

And right now, every coach and GM in the league is looking at Barkley, and what he's done for the Eagles offense and saying "Oh". Barkley may doing exactly what's needed to get the market to pivot a bit more towards a focus on top tier RB talent just like it has for QB, WR, EDGE and CB's.

You have to remember, it wasn't long ago that offenses thrived off of timing offenses with a plethora of what may just be considered the golden era for NFL QB's. During this time RB's weren't needed at a premium because it was so easy (or the QB talent was so commonly good) that offenses were moving the ball just fine passing. Now they're not and we're seeing offenses pivot back into running the ball more.

Its a game of rock, paper scissors that plays out very slowly. But its still rock, paper scissors none-the less. RB's are coming back into flavors of the year.

Rock, paper, scissors is a great analogy.

Defenses are being built to stop those passing teams. Underhill has already pointed it out but the big interior linebackers like Brandon Spikes don't really exist anymore. Massive amounts of money are being spent on pass rushing DE's and CB's. Teams spend more time in nickel so their nickelback's have gotten a whole lot better while their 3rd and 4th linebackers have gotten worse. Mobile QB's have introduced another dimension they have to consider.

Right now all these teams are heavily invested in passing and stopping it. It'll take a while for them to re-tool if they even want to. We kind of have a blank slate developing over the next few years and our new coach is the ideal candidate to get ahead of the curve.

 

[Taker597]

The last I heard that scenario was for QB by the last name of Watson. That didn’t happen either.

Biggest dodge bullet ever. But that's the microcosm of chasing a veteran franchise QB for instant stability.

I don't think you'll ever see a Drew Brees available ever again.

It's time to do it the hard way and draft a franchise QB. Time to suck.

 

[BBarnes]

You’re right, it’s subjective perception.

Some people’s subjective perception might be that Kellen Moore saying no thanks to moving forward, after Joe Brady said no thanks to being a candidate, Kliff Kingsbury said no thanks to an interview, and Mike McCarthy said no thanks to continued consideration is a fantastic look!

Or some people might see that

KK was never going to leave Washington this year because he has a gravy train job. He is getting paid by Washington and a nice amount from Arizona. He has a QB who is only going to get better and who is making him look even better than he is as an offensive coach. However, once he saw or heard that Moore was the leading candidate he pulled out.

MM, by all the information out there. Wanted the job. He just wanted total control, once they moved forward with Moore being the leading candidate MM pulled out to save face.

Brady is obvious. Ride the Josh Allen coattails another year and get his stock even higher. Although I do think a part of this decision was that he likely considered us a mess.

 

[St.Dan]

For me anyway, I also can't discount McCarthy's and Moore's previous pairing as a factor in the events of the past few days. It's trending to Moore, so our best hope is that he's something close to the next Payton. In terms of being young and hungry to accomplish things as a head coach, that is.

 

[natedog]

Haven't been reading about this much lately, but it's really hard to believe how far we have fallen in a quick 4-5 years. IMO it won't really matter much who is the head coach until the cap is fixed and we have an influx of young cheap talent.

 

[HogsNSaints]

It's crazy that only 4 other teams considered him as a FA. Texans offered him $11 million, Bears and Chargers considered him but went with other far inferior directions, and the Ravens considered him and went with Derrick Henry.

Top WR's are making $30-$40 million, the best RB's are fighting for $13-16 million. The fact that Barkley had to fight for $13 million is crazy.

The Moneyball aspect of this is insanely interesting. The last 2 years the NFC Super Bowl team featured elite RB play with efficient but average QB play. Everyone is chasing the elite QB/WR duo but that's almost $100 million between two players when you can spend $15 million on an elite RB and invest the difference in the rest of the team.

Completely agree, but it feels like a renaissance is coming for the RB position. We’ve all kind of discussed, so I won’t pretend to have some sort of “new theory” but schematics on offense cyclically changes to attack changing defenses.

As defenses get faster but smaller in the front 7 to counteract pass-heavy offenses, teams are jumping out in front and going with more grind-style offensive lineman/scrum plays. The Bills rode that scrum heavy O to the AFC Championship. It happened a bit in the mid-teens with Seattle, as well.

Not to mention, longevity for RBs is changing. Derrick Henry’s skill set at his age with his need to have the long-speed would have essentially been twilighting 10 years ago. I believe he set his career high on the GPS for MPH on a carry this year. Wild to do in your 30s after the volume he’s had in his career.

And this year was such an eye-opener (I’d hope) for NFL teams around the league. 5 of the top 8 (Barkley, Henry, Mixon, Jacobs, Aaron Jones) in offensive efficiency and YPG were FA signings. I think RBs are going to reestablish high value soon.

 

[Madmarsha]

Boy, next season just keeps getting better and better.

 

[DerrickB]

You can never predict anything.
I’m not saying Super Bowl. I wanna be clear. I’m not saying Moore will lead the team to a NFCCG like 06….
But would it be surprising if Moore steals a weak NFCS?

I wouldn't be surprised if Moore wins the South in his first season. There's no juggernaut within the division.

 

[Saint Jack]

I wouldn't be surprised if Moore wins the South in his first season. There's no juggernaut within the division.

That’s a hidden positive.
Glenn and Vrabel have to deal with the Allen.
Cohen and the Jaguars have to deal with Stroud.
Brian S. has to deal with Hurts AND Daniels.
Johnson has to deal with Goff and a very tough Vikings team.
There is no QB or team like that to compete with in the South.

 

[St. Geezy]

I wouldn't be surprised if Moore wins the South in his first season. There's no juggernaut within the division.

Yeah I don’t understand the doom and gloom mentality. We see surprise teams in this league pop up virtually every year.

A 5-12, injury-riddled squad who had an undebatable bad head coach and resides in an awful division is just the type of candidate to be that sort of team.

Add pieces at just the right spots, hit a homerun at HC, have a good draft, and suddenly you’re right back in the thick of things.

The margin separating good teams from average or even bad teams is a lot thinner than people realize.

I mean, are we going to contend to be some 15-2 juggernaut anytime soon? Probably not. But we aren’t far away from at least being a factor.

 

[HogsNSaints]

Or some people might see that

KK was never going to leave Washington this year because he has a gravy train job. He is getting paid by Washington and a nice amount from Arizona. He has a QB who is only going to get better and who is making him look even better than he is as an offensive coach. However, once he saw or heard that Moore was the leading candidate he pulled out.


Brady is obvious. Ride the Josh Allen coattails another year and get his stock even higher. Although I do think a part of this decision was that he likely considered us a mess.

These two are exactly what I am talking about, though. Every coach (that we’d want anyway) would prefer to be the #1 in a good spot vs the #2 in a great spot. KK & Brady are in really good positions, but a good opportunity to be a HC would trump a great OC job. Is it not reflective that their great OC jobs feel like the thing to keep over the opportunity to be the Saints HC? And again, I am not saying “it’s for sure” bad - I am only pointing to what we can all see from the outside looking in, which appears to make a lot of people on this board angry.

 

[3ParStillDriver]

I wouldn't be surprised if Moore wins the South in his first season. There's no juggernaut within the division.

I would. Defensively, our front 7 can't stop the run. Our pass defense isn't much better and we may be losing Adebo. 1 of our safety positions are wide open and struggled. Offensively our interior Oline is leaky and often injured. Our WR's are giant question mark due to injuries with Olave and Shaheed. We have no QB that can consistently put the offense on their arm with success, and our biggest star is 30 years old by start of next season which is where RB's typically have a big fall off in performance or are often injured.

We also have this giant, massive injury issue that hasn't been figured out yet.

If I'm being honest, a .500 season is doing good. Of course, that really means nothing. We have several contracts, trades, free agency and draft to go through so things could look very different come May.

 

[Clintonrebel]

It appears Moore is the guy they want. If I am McCarthy, I would not go through the charade of interviewing and not getting the job. And I don't want to be plan B. I would withdraw from consideration and do it publicly.

We could always give it to Rizz and gut the team and hire an up and coming coach in two years. Maybe Rizz surprises the world.