July 3 - Gettysburg. 144 years ago today. (1 Viewer)

[DadsDream]

It is all over now. Many of us are prisoners, many are dead, many wounded, bleeding and dying. Your soldier lives and mourns and but for you, my darling, he would rather be back there with his dead, to sleep for all time in an unknown grave.
Maj. Gen. George Pickett, to his Fiancée, July 4, 1863

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I was fascinated to watch a computer model showing that if Lee's commanders had only had the foresight to pre-rig a wooden fence to fall easily, Pickett's charge would have probably worked.

The computer model showed that the fence channeled, slowed and broke up the Confederate advance far more than historians had previously realized.

 

[UptownShark]

http://history.eserver.org/gettysburg-address.txt

 

[DadsDream]

"For a mile up and down the open fields before us the splendid lines of the veterans of the Army of Northern Virginia swept down upon us. Their bearing was magnificent. They came forward with a rush, and how our men did yell, 'Come on, Johnny, come on!'"
-Lt. Col. Rufus R. Dawes, 6th Wisconson, The Iron Brigade, July 1, 1863
http://www.zipcon.net/~kestral/quotes.html

Battle of Gettysburg

Strength
UNION 93,921
CONFEDERATE 71,699

Casualties
UNION 23,055 (3,155 killed, 14,531 wounded, 5,369 captured/missing)
CONFEDERATE 23,231 (4,708 killed, 12,693 wounded, 5,830 captured/missing)

"We'll follow you, Marse George. We'll follow you—we'll follow you." Oh, how faithfully they kept their word—following me on—on—to their death, and I, believing in the promised support, led them on—on—on—Oh, God!
Major General George E. Pickett discussing
the aftermath of Pickett's Charge
in letters to his fiancée,
July 6 & 12, 1863
http://www.brotherswar.com/Gettysburg_Day_3.htm

 

[SaintJ]

Yet another brutal example of Confederate idiocy in strategy and tactics.

As the chapter in Dave Barry's humorous take on our history put it: The Civil War: A Nation Pokes Itself in the Eyeball.

 

[DadsDream]

In charge of the Confederate artillery barrage preceding Pickett's charge that day was a 25-year-old West Point graduate, Colonel Edward Porter Alexander.

In Gettysburg, on July 3rd, 1863, E.P. Alexander commanded the cannon bombardment that preceded the infamous Pickett's Charge, as Longstreet's chief of Artillery. 75 guns were placed along a front extending 1,300 yards northward from the peach orchard; eight others locaated south to cover the flank of the attacking infantry. Several hundred yards to the left and to the reat of Alexander's main line were another 60, and beyond them another 24. All told, the Confederate deployment was approx. 170 guns, each with 130 to 150 rounds of ammunition available; everything was ready for the most colossal cannonade in the nation's history. As everything was in place, Alexander recieved a note from Longstreet, placing the burden of assessing the results of the bombardment and deciding whether the infantry charge should be made. Applalled by his dilemma, to cancel Lee's assault was unthinkable, yet so was defiance of Longstreet. It was a determination that Alexander felt he could not make: he could only follow the battle plan. "When our fire is at its best", he wrote Longstreet, "I will advise General Pickett to advance." Reluctantly, Longstreet sent the order to begin the bombardment. At 1 P.M., Alexander remembered, the roar of artillery "burst in on silence, almost as suddenly as the full notes of an organ would fill a church".

http://scard.buffnet.net/1st/epalexander/epalexander.html

The barrage proved to be aimed too high, with the rounds passing over the Union line and falling ineffectually behind them.

Military historians speculate that the young Col. Alexander failed to compensate properly for the opressive July heat when calculating the aim of his batteries.

 

[champ76]

It's an incredible place to visit, if you get the chance.

 

[Sabine]

Campaign: Gettysburg Campaign (June-August 1863)
Date(s): July 1-3, 1863
Principal Commanders: Maj. Gen. George G. Meade [US]; Gen. Robert E. Lee [CS]
Forces Engaged: 158,300 total (US 83,289; CS 75,054)
Estimated Casualties: 51,000 total (US 23,000; CS 28,000)
Description: Gen. Robert E. Lee concentrated his full strength against Maj. Gen. George G. Meade’s Army of the Potomac at the crossroads county seat of Gettysburg. On July 1, Confederate forces converged on the town from west and north, driving Union defenders back through the streets to Cemetery Hill. During the night, reinforcements arrived for both sides. On July 2, Lee attempted to envelop the Federals, first striking the Union left flank at the Peach Orchard, Wheatfield, Devil’s Den, and the Round Tops with Longstreet’s and Hill’s divisions, and then attacking the Union right at Culp’s and East Cemetery Hills with Ewell’s divisions. By evening, the Federals retained Little Round Top and had repulsed most of Ewell’s men. During the morning of July 3, the Confederate infantry were driven from their last toe-hold on Culp’s Hill. In the afternoon, after a preliminary artillery bombardment, Lee attacked the Union center on Cemetery Ridge. The Pickett-Pettigrew assault (more popularly, Pickett’s Charge) momentarily pierced the Union line but was driven back with severe casualties. Stuart’s cavalry attempted to gain the Union rear but was repulsed. On July 4, Lee began withdrawing his army toward Williamsport on the Potomac River. His train of wounded stretched more than fourteen miles.

http://www.nps.gov/history/hps/abpp/battles/pa002.htm

 

[Saintman2884]

The thing to consider about Gettysburg is that in military history terms, it was a accidental occurence. It was a chance encounter. The battle itself was originally held by the South as Lee and his subordinates came upon this town and wanted engagement but the actual goal was to destro the Union Army of the Potamac and march into Washington, a goal that almost happened BTW. te thing that stopped them was the thing that really hurt the Southern cause the most: Lack of men and firepower, the Union had both and the only thing that kept the Civil War going longer was Mclennan's inane battle tactics and strategy and somewhat incomeptence. He was a good motivator but damn it he didnt use that advantage. He sat on the army and to the point of getting Lincoln irritated and finally dumped him afterwards. The man who really cost the South the war was US Grant, that man was brutally efficent. He attacked and attacked Vicksburg like a demented animal until that thing fell on the day Gettysburg ended ironically. IMHO and Reb you can debate it with me, that battle's ending screwed the south's chances o even winning the war or even a stalemate. Because it cut the South in half, literally. The Mississippi belonged to the Union and with it cut off supply lines, food shipments, and after that the south was slowly being brought down to it knees. Gettysburg was a hard thing for the South, but I think Vicksburg is what did them in. And give credit to Grant, Sherman, and Sheridan, these were men or IRON, they had no ideals about conventional warfare, or the drewy chivalrous dreams composed of it, they wanted to bring it down violentlaly and with brutality never really seen in warfare before. I dont think even Napolean would have done the thign s these three men did in the South like burning Atlanta and the March to the SEa. If they did that in Iraq, the news media would scream bloody freakin murder about it all. These men believed war was dirty and should be handled accordingly.

 

[Sabine]

It's an incredible place to visit, if you get the chance.

Yes it is. I thought it was the most solemn place I had ever been. Then, I went to Vicksburg. The size of that cemetery was overwhelming and made it hard to breathe.
I know more were lost at Gettysburg, but the memorials are more spread out. You can't take it all in at once. At Vicksburg, once it starts it goes on, and on, and on.....

 

[champ76]

Yes it is. I thought it was the most solemn place I had ever been. Then, I went to Vicksburg. The size of that cemetery was overwhelming and made it hard to breathe.
I know more were lost at Gettysburg, but the memorials are more spread out. You can't take it all in at once. At Vicksburg, once it starts it goes on, and on, and on.....

Vicksburg is very well marked and easy to visualize what went on. Plus it's handy!

 

[voodoo_blues]

It's an incredible place to visit, if you get the chance.

I drive truck and deliver to a lot of places in Gettysburg. Today I had the pleasure of making a delivery to the bookstore in the one visitors center there. Was NOT fun. It was so crowded today.

It's funny because I just think of it as another town around here. But every once in awhile I'll take a trip to actually remind myself how historical the place is.

 

[mr.t]

IMHO, I have been to Vicksburg, Gettysburg, and the Arizona Memorial. I love miltary history. I have to say that the Arizona made my eyes tear. Ironically, we were the only Americans on that tour boat at that time. All the rest were Japanese or Koreans. I also teer up when I go to the Vietnam Memorial. I went there on a filed trip with about 80 8th graders, and I cried a bit. They freaked out. I had to tell them that I had friends wounded and changed for life during that war.

 

[CAVALIER]

Yet another brutal example of Confederate idiocy in strategy and tactics.

As the chapter in Dave Barry's humorous take on our history put it: The Civil War: A Nation Pokes Itself in the Eyeball.

Whooa....Confrederate idiocy in strategy and tactics? That's a bit overzealous considering the strategic success the Confederacy had before the absolute debacle at Gettysburg, and their relative success afterward. I agree that a frontal assault was doomed to failure, even if the artillery barriage had been able to continue or if the Union had reinforced the "hooks" rather than the center, they would have still had time to repulse the center stroke..in my opinion. That error by General Lee should not cloud his exceptional generalship throughout the war...though the losses he took their all but took any legitimate change for victory from the Southern Nation.


God Bless the soldiers of both sides and the American ideals they both fought for. Their valor was not in vain that we can hollow the great nation they help create....

 

[SaintJ]

Whooa....Confrederate idiocy in strategy and tactics? That's a bit overzealous considering the strategic success the Confederacy had before the absolute debacle at Gettysburg, and their relative success afterward. I agree that a frontal assault was doomed to failure, even if the artillery barriage had been able to continue or if the Union had reinforced the "hooks" rather than the center, they would have still had time to repulse the center stroke..in my opinion. That error by General Lee should not cloud his exceptional generalship throughout the war...though the losses he took their all but took any legitimate change for victory from the Southern Nation.


God Bless the soldiers of both sides and the American ideals they both fought for. Their valor was not in vain that we can hollow the great nation they help create....

I'll defer to your far superior scholarship on this issue in the particulars, but constantly trying to take the war to a far larger and industrially superior enemy just 80 years after a guerilla warfare of attrition had won the nation independence....too much honor and not enough judgment.

It's just my opinion, Cav.

 

[LSSpam]

I'll defer to your far superior scholarship on this issue in the particulars, but constantly trying to take the war to a far larger and industrially superior enemy just 80 years after a guerilla warfare of attrition had won the nation independence....too much honor and not enough judgment.

It's just my opinion, Cav.

The political structure that the South was thrust into by the very nature of secession as well as the foreign policy objectives it was trying to accomplish forced the South into that position. And that position largely dictated the military strategy that followed.

It wasn't a straightforward proposition of "We can bleed the US dry for 10 years or we can all gather in one place and let them wipe the floor with us"

Personnally I think the emphasis on "world opinion" is incredibly underrated in it's influence on the Civil War. We were a meeting between Earl Russell and Lord Palmerston in 1862 away from living in the CSA.