NFL Network: Safety play bad today (1 Viewer)

[humboldtsaint]

We all know this but after the highlights of the game on NFL network Mooch broke down how all the big plays happpend today and said it was due to safties being out of postition. (he did include our td to Joe) but 2 of the 3 CJ touchdowns were as much the safties fault as Freddie. I had a bad feeling when Harper went down and we are getting reminded why weekly.

 

[Scott B]

tell you what, I wasn't too thrilled with the pick of Harper, but man, he is missed back there. Bullocks still has a bunch to learn and Stoudmire just isn't athletic enough in the pass game to make a difference. Harper was like a QB back there, getting Bullocks in position.

 

[lifelongsaint]

harper really hurts but our backs are getting beat like red headed step children.
man just on the slow mo replays right after the real play you could see, this guy got beat . i really have faith in this coaching staff (still). but if they dont fix this im going to lose faith real fast. this is getting sad. but hey, we wont see this any more this week cause this team knows where there at and what they have to do.

 

[rpmgatech]

I agree safety play was bad, but Harper's loss was not what hurt us today. Harper was a SS not a FS. The problems today were with the FS.

I watched this game from home because I was unable to make the game and from that first TD, I began to get sick. We should have lost by way more if Marvin Lewis or whoever was calling the plays for the Bengals would have figured out that our two cover-2 safeties were biting on that play action like they were linebackers. All they had to do was keep running the play action.

Our safeties have to learn that they are what their names describe (safeties). They aren't supposed to make plays at the line of scrimmage, but for some reason that is where they were after every play action pass. It made me sick to see professional football players with such bad fundamentals. Look at the replays and you will see that from the Pitt game and this game the safeties did not do their jobs in both the run and the pass.

In the run they are supposed to contain, but instead they run to the middle of the field to make the play instead of to the outside ... result ("fast" Willie Parker for 70 yd TD). In the pass they are supposed to cover deep halves. Now c'mon, some previous safeties from high school or college, support me on this ... what does deep halves mean?? It means that the receivers on your half of the field should NEVER get any deeper than you are. How easy is that??

 

[Pain_Link_Fence]

I had a bad feeling when Harper went down and we are getting reminded why weekly.

We gave up big passes before he went down.
Heck, the first play of the year was a 74 yard TD pass to Braylon Edwards that was called back.
Even Atlanta burned us for a big gain, even though we held them to just 3.
Bottom line, with the exception of 3 (or 4 if you choose not to count the 1st play of the year) games, there has been a 45+ yard pass. Our corners and safeties are just not on the same page.

 

[bclemms]

I think we really miss Dwight Smith about now. I know he isn't the best guy off the field but man he would make a difference. I wish I knew the whole story to that.

 

[rpmgatech]

exactly, pain linke fence, read my post right above yours. it is because harber is a strong safety which is almost like a linebacker ... i.e. they don't cover the deep balls. That is the free safety's job.

 

[humboldtsaint]

Harper is a strong safety but he was like a qb for the secondary and while there were big plays being given up there werent 2-3 a game

 

[Pain_Link_Fence]

exactly, pain linke fence, read my post right above yours. it is because harber is a strong safety which is almost like a linebacker ... i.e. they don't cover the deep balls. That is the free safety's job.

That's what is great about Harper.
Even though he's a good SS, we can put him deep in a cover 2 with confidence.
It's pretty quick to drop to a cover 3 from that set, and blitz the SS or put him in the box; his athleticism allows for that.
They tried a blitz with Stoutmire today and he just bounced off Rudi.:0030:
I don't remember seeing him deep at all though.

The thing that bothers me is this is the worst our safeties have played since the "gold jersey" game against Minnesota.
We ran a cover two, but much of the time Knight and Bellamy were so far apart it was more like having two sets of two deep coverage.
On the "Hodge on Moss" TD, our safeties were actually at the sidelines near the endzone.
On that one play, Venturi thought Hodge could keep covering Moss, Thomas could tackle Culpepper on a blitz, and that both Knight and Bellamy would be fast enough to recover to the center of the endzone.

Thank God things aren't that bad anymore.
That said, there's way to much biting in the secondary, and the message of "pass first" either isn't being said or isn't getting heard.

 

[longtime lurker]

Harper's loss was huge......the Saints did a good job of covering their defensive weaknesses in the first half of the year. These last two games have exposed the Saints.

The remake of the mess that Haz left the Saints in continues...but one season was just to much to ask for Payton to fix all the problems.

Wish list....LBer,Cb,Safety.

Should be a fun off season and draft.

 

[Craig Walker]

Maybe the safety was out of position, but Freddie could not get his eyes out of the backfield. He was trailing by 10 yards every TD.

 

[cruize]

Why does any coach, scheme, and/or player allow a WR to run by them and guard turf? The QB isn't going to throw the ball to the turf. If an underneath WR breaks open, you can always peel back and make the tackle. If the WR you let run by you beats the safety, which always happens, it's a big play and usually a touchdwon.

 

[bclemms]

Maybe the safety was out of position, but Freddie could not get his eyes out of the backfield. He was trailing by 10 yards every TD.

The first TD Thomas was trailing but he was supposed to be. He had underneath coverage and Bullocks was supposed to have over the top. Johnson didn't blow by Thomas, Fred was jogging until the ball went in the air. It was supposed to be a double team to completely shut down Johnson but instead Bullocks bit bad on the play action and left Thomas out to dry.

On the second TD Thomas tried to jump an out route and picked a bad spot to gamble. There is no excuse for that.

The third TD was good coverage but there is only so much you can do when your man up on the 3 yard line and Johnson runs a quick slant with a perfect throw. Thomas had good coverage and can't be blamed there.

Thomas had a bad day against one of the leagues best WR's but if you don't hold the first play against Thomas then he basically gave up one big play.

Yesterdays game was a perfect example why I didn't understand why people were giving him so much crap for giving up 50-70 yards a game. I think Thomas is being pressured to get some turnovers and took a risk that he normally does not take.

 

[truck man]

The first TD Thomas was trailing but he was supposed to be. He had underneath coverage and Bullocks was supposed to have over the top. Johnson didn't blow by Thomas, Fred was jogging until the ball went in the air. It was supposed to be a double team to completely shut down Johnson but instead Bullocks bit bad on the play action and left Thomas out to dry.

On the second TD Thomas tried to jump an out route and picked a bad spot to gamble. There is no excuse for that.

The third TD was good coverage but there is only so much you can do when your man up on the 3 yard line and Johnson runs a quick slant with a perfect throw. Thomas had good coverage and can't be blamed there.

Thomas had a bad day against one of the leagues best WR's but if you don't hold the first play against Thomas then he basically gave up one big play.

Yesterdays game was a perfect example why I didn't understand why people were giving him so much crap for giving up 50-70 yards a game. I think Thomas is being pressured to get some turnovers and took a risk that he normally does not take.

actually you're wrong....on the first a robber coverage was called witch makes it Cover 3, yes Bullocks took a step forward but if FT gets a jam on CJ then Bullocks may have had time to recover. on the second TD FT peeked into the backfield and CJ ran by him, but FT paused and didn't run to make a play after Palmer threw the ball. thats in-excusable. he wouldn't have stopped CJ from catching the ball, but if he gives effort he may stop a TD. on the 3rd deep ball, FT once again allows a free release, HOW IN THE #$%& DO YOU CONTINUE TO ALLOW A FREE RELEASE?????, and FT was beat from that point. on the TD catch yeah it's hard to cover a WR from the # yard line, when you're standing 2 yards in the endzone...why don't we get a press there, if they beat you on the fade at least you can say he out jumped you. look ya'll can continue to look for excuses for FT, but the answer is he isn't that good and has never been nothing more than a back-up! yeah he's scrappy and works hard, but he has no talent and is getting up in age. we may not have another CB on our roster that anybody thinks is good, but at least give them a chance cause they can't play any worse than FT has been ALL YEAR.

 

[Domeination]

We clearly need to overhaul the secondary during the offseason. Hopefully, Harper comes back and picks up where he left off. McKenzie is pretty good, but he's not getting any younger. Stick a fork in Fred Thomas. He's had some good games for the Saints, but they're in the past. He's clearly lost a step, and he never had good size to begin with, which definitely hurts him against big receivers. Bullocks is disappointing. I thought with better coaching, this might be the year he started to make an impact, but he bites too easily on play action and almost always seems out of place when the ball's in the air. And who is our nickel corner? Throw the rest of our corners into a bag and pick one. Payton will have to go after corners and maybe even another safety in the draft and free agency after this season's over.