No Star Power (7 Viewers)

Gonna state some obvious stuff and kick the dead horse for a minute then get to my point.

In my years of fandom, I really can't remember having a roster so depleted. No stars, starters who would be rotational at best on other teams, and replacement level players for depth. You'd think that would mean we have tons of cap space and be drafting in the top 5 at worse. Instead we have to spend another winter playing the cap-game so we can get under by the deadline and 2024 had a LOT of bad teams. 5-12 barely got us in the top 10. To top it all off, here we are a week before the senior bowl and we still don't have a coach or know who will be on said coach's staff. (all the other teams looking for a HC have found their guy for better or worse, so we're last)

Back to the roster. The main things that stick out to me is how many of our starters are back-up level and how many of our back-ups actually deserve to be the back-ups of back-ups. And it all starts at the top. Our "stars". I heard Belichick say once that on defense, I need one elite player on each level of the defense. We have:

DL - Cam Jordan (Clearly past his prime and more of a roll player that flashes once ever few games)
LB - Demario Davis (Still playing above average, but it's clear his body isn't keeping up with his elite mind as much these days)
DB - Tyrann Mathieu (Same as Demario, except he's lost two steps to DD's one step. Similar to where Cam is at)

All of these guys are still "good" to have on your team. But they're no longer truly star players. Guys the other team has to game plan for. Time for the new "star" players to take the reigns...

DL - Carl Granderson (I have no qualms with Grando, he's solid and an huge asset, but to date, he's been a role player who flashes a few times every game. Not necessarily a "star" player. At least not yet.)

LB - Pete Werner (The pure definition of a role player)

DB - Kool Aid McKinstry or Alontae Taylor (Both remain to be seen, but neither appear to be the next Lattimore)
Other.... Bryan Breese (After a promising rookie season, Breese seems to have plateau'd, at lest for now. Many have mentioned that adding a strong IDL to line up next to him could unlock his potential and maybe he could elevate to "star". But IMO, "star" DLmen usually make the guy next to them better instead of needing them to help him be better)

On offense it's much the same...

OL - Telllese Fuaga (Too soon to put a "star" label on him but he did have a promising rookie season)

QB - Derek Carr (33 years old and has never been a "star". Good most of the time, great every once in a while in short spurts, but never elite overall nor in any specific metric)

RB - Alvin Kamara (30 years old next season and still a productive player when he gets some help from the rest of the offense, play caller, and OL. You'll see a run and think he's still got IT... then a dozen or so touches of meh. OL and passing game hasn't been his friend lately. Most telling is how his production seems to taper off pretty noticably as the season goes along. To me that's a sign of tired legs and as much as I hate to say it... decline due to age. I could be wrong.)

WR - Chris Olave (Very good receiver with WAY too many concussions. I've always thought of him as more of a "star #2 receiver" a 'la Chris Godwin.)

TE - None (two role players that go hot and cold and more cold than hot.)

Others - Rasheed Shaheed (elite kick returner at times. Other than that, he's a true deep speed receiver and like most of those guys not named Tyreek Hill, they live off low percentage pass plays. When they hit (~20-30% of the time) it's a home run and everybody calls them a "star". But the other 70% of the time, they just clear out the safety. NOTE: He'll be coming off his first major leg injury. Like most UDFA's, his career is based on one specific trait. His speed. If the injury slows him down even a half a step, then what made him special is gone and he could have a tough time keeping the train on the tracks.)

Special teams are solid, but still average. At least no stars. Sheed as a kick returner might make a case, but our punter is good-not-great, and our kicker is good. I'll take that as there have only been a handful of PKs a maybe a punter or two in the history of the league that anyone would put the "star" label on. (Soon as a kicker misses a critical FG, he's usually moved off the list. And they all miss critical FGs now and again.

We've seen some stars in my lifetime of being a Saints fan. Drew, prime MT, Prime Cam, Deuce, Colston, Sammy, Dome Patrol, Graham, Roaf, Jahri, Lattimore, *Marcus Williams, Horn, Pierre, Sproles, Devery, prime DD, Morten, Glover, Armstead, Ingram, VIlma, Carl Nicks, and even Morestead to name a few. But like the old country song I wonder, "who's gonna fill their shoes?"

Asking for another 2017 draft is probably asking too much and our cap situation says we're not likely to pull in an all-pro through free agency. But one thing is for certain, our "stars" are fading, and it's hard to find hope to replace them on our current roster. Teams don't compete for championships without having that caliber of guys sprinkled across their depth chart.

Guess I'll wrap up this keyboard rant and leave it with this. We need to find "stars" in the first two rounds of the next several drafts and hope to find a few gems in later rounds. And I'm for drafting "star" type players regardless of position and/or positional value. Build a useable team during free agency, and swing for the fences in the draft.
Solid post, all truth.
 
The OP is dead right. We’ve been talking about the roster for a while now. The kicking the can strategy has left us old and devoid of talent at a lot of positions with no budding stars. Just aging stars from a previous era.

We’re in a tough spot and there is no denying that this team needs a tear down and rebuild. The best thing Loomis could do is to lead the tear down and collect draft assets over the next 12 months and then step down to allow a new GM to remake the team for the next era.
If Cam Ward is THE GUY, then trade our 2nd and 3rd round picks this year and move up. (if Mike McCarthy did the evaluation I’d feel ok). Then pretty much tank 2025. Then get another high pick and dump salaries. Then we’ll be in good shape heading into 2026.
 
If Cam Ward is THE GUY, then trade our 2nd and 3rd round picks this year and move up. (if Mike McCarthy did the evaluation I’d feel ok). Then pretty much tank 2025. Then get another high pick and dump salaries. Then we’ll be in good shape heading into 2026.
No way. We need far more than a QB and losing those picks would set us back even further. You draft whatever player has a chance of being a star regardless of position at every pick. No drafting for need because every position is a need. Stars are a need.
 
No way. We need far more than a QB and losing those picks would set us back even further. You draft whatever player has a chance of being a star regardless of position at every pick. No drafting for need because every position is a need. Stars are a need.

Exactly, no QB in this draft is worth trading up for.
 
If Cam Ward is THE GUY, then trade our 2nd and 3rd round picks this year and move up. (if Mike McCarthy did the evaluation I’d feel ok). Then pretty much tank 2025. Then get another high pick and dump salaries. Then we’ll be in good shape heading into 2026.
If Ward or even Sanders would fall to 9 (they absolutely won't), I might would take a chance on them and start the re-build with a potential star QB on a cheap 5 year rookie deal. THAT would more than make up for the dead-cap hit trading or releasing Carr would cost. Not sure about either of those guys, but I've been wrong about QBs before. I think we all have to be honest.

Not to make this a Carr/Rattler post, but need it for context. Carr gives us the best chance to win games in 2025, Rattler has some good and bad tape (albeit with a weak supporting cast and very little development reps during the season) and the incoming coach can draw his own conclusions. I'm good with sacrificing 2025 if there's a real plan in place building for 2026 and beyond.

If the new coach wants to draft HIS guy a 'la Sean Payton in Denver and then cut-bait with Carr and take the cap-hit now a 'la Sean Payton in Denver (Russel Wilson) then I could get behind it. Yeah, we need WAY more pieces than QB, but I would understand the philosophy. Especially if we went play-maker TE and/or WR with whichever pick we didn't use to get the QB. Give the new QB a friend at ball catcher to grow up with. I think I'd rather pick up a QB with our 2nd pick or if we get lucky and the guy our new coach likes slides to the 3rd (also very unlikely). Very few were high on Nix. Sean Payton was high on him and all that matters is that the early results say he was right. Lamar Jackson fell all the way to the very end of the 1st round and most of the other 30 teams gotta have heartburn over that. I was horribly wrong about him too. So maybe I'm wrong about Milroe. Maybe everybody's wrong about Howard, Dart, Leonard, etc...

Think about what turned Washington, Cinci, Denver, KC, Buffalo, Houston, LAC, and Miami from being different levels of schedule fodder into teams that are admittedly different levels of relevant.
There's more to it that THAT of course, but any team that hits drafting a rookie QB is almost automatically back in business within a couple years. At least they don't fall into the aimless losers category.
 
If Ward or even Sanders would fall to 9 (they absolutely won't), I might would take a chance on them and start the re-build with a potential star QB on a cheap 5 year rookie deal. THAT would more than make up for the dead-cap hit trading or releasing Carr would cost. Not sure about either of those guys, but I've been wrong about QBs before. I think we all have to be honest.

Not to make this a Carr/Rattler post, but need it for context. Carr gives us the best chance to win games in 2025, Rattler has some good and bad tape (albeit with a weak supporting cast and very little development reps during the season) and the incoming coach can draw his own conclusions. I'm good with sacrificing 2025 if there's a real plan in place building for 2026 and beyond.

If the new coach wants to draft HIS guy a 'la Sean Payton in Denver and then cut-bait with Carr and take the cap-hit now a 'la Sean Payton in Denver (Russel Wilson) then I could get behind it. Yeah, we need WAY more pieces than QB, but I would understand the philosophy. Especially if we went play-maker TE and/or WR with whichever pick we didn't use to get the QB. Give the new QB a friend at ball catcher to grow up with. I think I'd rather pick up a QB with our 2nd pick or if we get lucky and the guy our new coach likes slides to the 3rd (also very unlikely). Very few were high on Nix. Sean Payton was high on him and all that matters is that the early results say he was right. Lamar Jackson fell all the way to the very end of the 1st round and most of the other 30 teams gotta have heartburn over that. I was horribly wrong about him too. So maybe I'm wrong about Milroe. Maybe everybody's wrong about Howard, Dart, Leonard, etc...

Think about what turned Washington, Cinci, Denver, KC, Buffalo, Houston, LAC, and Miami from being different levels of schedule fodder into teams that are admittedly different levels of relevant.
There's more to it that THAT of course, but any team that hits drafting a rookie QB is almost automatically back in business within a couple years. At least they don't fall into the aimless losers category.
I would be stoked if Mike McCarthy evaluated and determined that Howard/Dart etc is worthy of a top pick. I’d trust who he’d select.
 
Well, I'm not really making any sort of case about a coach other than it's time to start prepping for the draft and we don't have a coach or know who our coordinators or even position coaches will be. My rant/post was really just about how we don't have any bonafide up and coming "stars" on the roster.
I understand, and everyone needs to rant sometimes. don’t get me wrong, Im not saying it’s not justified and I like to rant sometimes too . It just seems everyone who want to rant about the same thing or at least the same subject has started a new tread to do it. Some of them make sense, some don’t but they’re all getting lost in the shuffle to me.
I guess I should just stay out of them but you know. It’s like a train wreck. Can’t help myself
 
Kind of hard to have "star power" when everyone's hurt.

2 ways to get "star power":
1. Win SB (and you will not win one when decimated by injuries).
2. Become a media darling. N.O. isn't a big enough market for media darlings.

And "star power" doesn't win you games.

The 1972 Miami Dolphins are the only team that went undefeated an entire season and won the SB, with a defense nicknamed "no-name defense". In contrast, the "monsters of the midway" lead by Dick Butkus went 4-9.
 
Exactly, no QB in this draft is worth trading up for.
Maybe there's one worth trading down for? One scenario I wouldn't hate would be for a team near the back of the first round wants to move up and we get an extra day two pick. Draft our new coach's pick for QB and still have 4 more picks in the top 100.
Kind of hard to have "star power" when everyone's hurt.

2 ways to get "star power":
1. Win SB (and you will not win one when decimated by injuries).
2. Become a media darling. N.O. isn't a big enough market for media darlings.

And "star power" doesn't win you games.

The 1972 Miami Dolphins are the only team that went undefeated an entire season and won the SB, with a defense nicknamed "no-name defense". In contrast, the "monsters of the midway" lead by Dick Butkus went 4-9.
3rd way is the draft. In real life, in one draft, we drafted:
  • Round 1, Pick 11 - Marshon Lattimore, DB, Ohio State
  • Round 1, Pick 32 - Ryan Ramczyk, OT, Wisconsin
  • Round 2, Pick 42 - Marcus Williams, DB, Utah
  • Round 3, Pick 67 - Alvin Kamara, RB, Tennessee
  • Round 3, Pick 76 - Alex Anzalone, LB, Florida
  • Round 3, Pick 103 - Trey Hendrickson, DE, Florida Atlantic
  • Round 6, Pick 196 - Al-Quadin Muhammad, DE, Miami

Ram made an early exit due to knee disease, but was an absolute warrior. Latt, AK, and T-rex all became bonafide superstars. MW, Anzalone, and even AQM are all still playing at a high level in the league. Granted we only have 4 picks in the first three rounds so a repeat of this is even more unlikely, but maybe we break the trend and find a way to trade back for a change and pick up another pick or two?

I think the overall point of my rant was that we really really really need to win the draft again. Probably a couple drafts to be completely honest.
 
Maybe there's one worth trading down for? One scenario I wouldn't hate would be for a team near the back of the first round wants to move up and we get an extra day two pick. Draft our new coach's pick for QB and still have 4 more picks in the top 100.

Even then, I'd be curious is there was a guy from a previous draft that grades out higher. Joe Milton for example. That's Drake Maye's team and they should have a veteran backup for him making Milton available.

Having 9 picks is a good start.
 
It's amazingly bad this team didn't have a probowl player on the initial roster.

Anyone know if any Saints became probowl replacements for the flag football game.

Well anyway that is a far cry from 2019 when the ProBowl Roster was full of Saints players
 
You must forget that we have Foskey and Turner on the roster.

Jk, I’ve said the same. Been a long time since we’ve had so little talent. It’s gonna be ok tho.
 
How many times and how many different people need to post the same stuff about how we’re not gonna be able to get a coach? It just becomes an echo chamber for the same crowd.
Don’t worry, I’m sure we’ll get a coach. You may not like him I’m sure many won’t and I’m sure some will. Gonna be a fun off season
People really think the NFL season will start and the story will be how the Saints never hired a coach because nobody wants to coach here.
 

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