Rebuild or Reload

[NatureBoy]

Reload? Hahaha. Yeah, lets not get to radical, we don't want to get too far below the 5 win team we are.

 

[SubmarineMike]

I don't think (I doubt any of us think) that, no matter what we do or how we do it, the Saints will have a good year in 2025. Missing too many pieces, way too thin at every position.

In my mind, the real question is what to do about Carr, which sums up the whole debate. Do we cut him THIS year, eating the 2025 money but saving the 2026 money? That move, to me, would be the only way to even think about a rebuild. Shoot, with our cap situation, I don't even know how we could "reload" with anything competitive.

Of course, I'm no cap expert.

 

[Rouxble]

Quick question, as it stands right now, (if we're 60 mill) over the cap for 2025, what moves/ restructures would make sense to get under the cap? Is there a way to get under the cap without restructuring Carr?

It's possible, you just have to restructure just about everyone else. Assuming players are willing to add enough void years to max out the 2025 savings, here is one scenario where Jordan and Davis play again in 2025. The below clears $60.5m, and would be close to the same savings realized if Jordan and Davis took paycuts in anticipation of retirement.

PLAYER	MOVE	SAVINGS
Ramczyk	Paycut	$16.8m
Jordan	Restructure	$9.0m
Davis	Restructure	$4.2m
Hill	Restructure (maybe rework contract with NLTBE)	$7.0m
McCoy	Restructure	$6.7m
Ruiz	Restructure (salary is guaranteed anyway)	$6.4m
Granderson	Restructure	$5.2m
Werner	Restructure (salary is guaranteed anyway)	$2.4m
Moreau	Release	$2.8m

You would need to clear more space to be able to function, this just gets you the $60m.

 

[j4m2b]

I say we keep chopping wood

 

[Rexman100]

It's possible, you just have to restructure just about everyone else. Assuming players are willing to add enough void years to max out the 2025 savings, here is one scenario where Jordan and Davis play again in 2025. The below clears $60.5m, and would be close to the same savings realized if Jordan and Davis took paycuts in anticipation of retirement.

PLAYER	MOVE	SAVINGS
Ramczyk	Paycut	$16.8m
Jordan	Restructure	$9.0m
Davis	Restructure	$4.2m
Hill	Restructure (maybe rework contract with NLTBE)	$7.0m
McCoy	Restructure	$6.7m
Ruiz	Restructure (salary is guaranteed anyway)	$6.4m
Granderson	Restructure	$5.2m
Werner	Restructure (salary is guaranteed anyway)	$2.4m
Moreau	Release	$2.8m

You would need to clear more space to be able to function, this just gets you the $60m.

ok, that seems doable. Do you know if the 60Mill over takes account of the cap increase? If they would hire Gruden for example, then restructuring Carr would make sense. Then they could retool somewhat for a couple more years. For some reason, I dont think the Saints are wanting Carr gone, like the fans.

 

[Rouxble]

ok, that seems doable. Do you know if the 60Mill over takes account of the cap increase? If they would hire Gruden for example, then restructuring Carr would make sense. Then they could retool somewhat for a couple more years. For some reason, I dont think the Saints are wanting Carr gone, like the fans.

It looks like a cap increase is factored in, roughly a $20m increase.

 

[guillermo]

There is a point that is not discussed yet, Mickey Loomis is 69 years old. And I think Dennis Lauscha is around 55.

I don't know if Mickey still has the energy of building a competitive team, and even the willingness to do so.

But one thing is for sure, when Mickey leaves, Dennis Lauscha will still be there.

I don't know the urgency and patience of Ms. Benson regarding the state of affairs. But I know that if things don't improve, it will be Lauscha who will have to take command and make the tough decisions.

There may be some internal politics in the organization going on right now.

Loomis may be best friend with Lauscha, but it's not in the interest of Lauscha to have the team driven to a bigger hole.

 

[rail]

I say we keep chopping wood

And look beyond the results.

 

[RJ in Lafayette]

Every indication is that we are essentially reloading and certainly not launching a hard rebuild. Note there is not even a team-released letter from the owner suggesting the organization reviewed how much change should be made and stating that she is disappointed in the results but that Loomis is returning (unlike the letters and press conferences by the owner in New England, Indianapolis, Miami, Jacksonville and New York (the Giants).

It seems clear that Loomis will pick the next head coach and continue to determine the team's future direction. Plus, Jeff Duncan just wrote a story practically confirming that Derek Carr is going nowhere.

 

[Rexman100]

Every indication is that we are essentially reloading and certainly not launching a hard rebuild. Note there is not even a team-released letter from the owner suggesting the organization reviewed how much change should be made and stating that she is disappointed in the results but that Loomis is returning (unlike the letters and press conferences by the owner in New England, Indianapolis, Miami, Jacksonville and New York (the Giants).

It seems clear that Loomis will pick the next head coach and continue to determine the team's future direction. Plus, Jeff Duncan just wrote a story practically confirming that Derek Carr is going nowhere.

Yea I don’t think the Saints want Carr gone. He gives them their best chance in the short term

 

[dataussie]

I'd be trading out any of the guys with value and making moves to get the cap back under. Suck it up for a year or two, but at least there is light at the end of the tunnel.

Just worried Loomis is too stubborn to do what's needed. Ehhh. Getting rid of him is #1 priority in my mind.

 

[3ParStillDriver]

It's possible, you just have to restructure just about everyone else. Assuming players are willing to add enough void years to max out the 2025 savings, here is one scenario where Jordan and Davis play again in 2025. The below clears $60.5m, and would be close to the same savings realized if Jordan and Davis took paycuts in anticipation of retirement.

PLAYER	MOVE	SAVINGS
Ramczyk	Paycut	$16.8m
Jordan	Restructure	$9.0m
Davis	Restructure	$4.2m
Hill	Restructure (maybe rework contract with NLTBE)	$7.0m
McCoy	Restructure	$6.7m
Ruiz	Restructure (salary is guaranteed anyway)	$6.4m
Granderson	Restructure	$5.2m
Werner	Restructure (salary is guaranteed anyway)	$2.4m
Moreau	Release	$2.8m

You would need to clear more space to be able to function, this just gets you the $60m.

I keep reading we could save $30 million if we cut Carr and 9 million if we cut Jordan. Im not sure how that works since everyone says we would get more dead money. but restructuring Jordan and Davis is a disaster move. Restructuring Carr sounds awful also. Ram should be able to take an injury settle where most of it doesn't count against the cap.

 

[Rouxble]

I keep reading we could save $30 million if we cut Carr and 9 million if we cut Jordan. Im not sure how that works since everyone says we would get more dead money.

The cap hits all depend on how the cuts are handled. No matter what, we save $30m in cash if we cut Carr, but the dead money on the cap will hit differently depending on how he is released.

If we release him outright, we have to account for all of his dead cap charges this year. We would have a dead cap hit of $50.1m (compared to his current cap hit of $51.5m, we save $1.4m against the cap).

If we designate him as a post June 1 cut, we carry his $51.5m cap hit until June 1, at which point his cap hit will reduce to $21.5m (there's the $30m savings in cash and cap), and the remainder of his dead money ($28.6m) wouldn't be on our cap until 2026. A post June 1 cut allows you to only pay this year's dead money charges while letting the rest of his charges accelerate into the following year.

An obvious move that could help us would be to restructure his roster bonus prior to releasing him, which saves us an additional $6m this year and makes it easier to carry his cap hit until June 1. His $10m roster bonus is guaranteed, so restructuring it makes sense for the cap relief if we plan on doing a post June-1 cut. The numbers if we do that:

Cap hit to carry until June 1: $45.5m (-$6m)
Cap hit after June 1: $15.5m (-$6m)
Cap hit in 2026: $34.6m (+$6m)


Similar math could be figured for any other contract, including Jordan's.

 

[Cella]

hard to really reload with this cap situation and iam not sure if we are 1-2 good FA starters or good draftpicks away from being a contender, to get atleast into a playoff appearance. so if nothing changes drastically about cap situation, we need to rebuild, maybe 2-3 years. We need starters and depth in all offseasons the next years. No trading up for freakish athletes, but collecting draftpicks. We need young depth at any position and at least 8-10 new starters. At least we are good at Kicker