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Thanks for the post, kfran... definitely brings back some memories. Really, I think it will take a lot more than that win at Tampa Bay to validate us as an elite NFL team... we've had similar early season successes a few times before only to not make the playoffs. If I'm not mistaken, every season we've started with a record of 5-1 or better, we've ended up not making the playoffs (except the '91 season where we started 7-0 and backed our way into an 11-5 record).
Sean Payton appears to be a different breed than the coaches we've had in the past but I swear people were saying the same exact thing about Haslett when he led us to the NFC West title and our only playoff victory in his first season...
I agree with you, wardnine.
I don't consider us as an Elite NFL team right now either (not yet, anyway), but I do consider us to be a very good team through the 1st ten weeks of the season.
Quite frankly, I don't see any "elite" teams in the league right now. There are a couple of top tier teams - IMHO - like the Colts and Pats, but I believe every team in the league has a weakness.
To me, it's even more evident in the NFC. As I stated earlier, with the Giants being banged up on D, it's going to put more pressure on Eli and the Giants' O. I really think that's going to cost them a couple of games.
Nor am I sold on Grossman being able to lead the Bears deep into the playoffs. His inexperience has been exposed twice already,and there are still 8games to play before January.
Considering that the Bear, Giants, and Saints all have top 10 defenses right now, good special teams, and offensive weapons... I really believe it's going to come down to three things:
1.) Injuries, or the lack thereof...
2.) Coaching
3.) Quarterback
Right now, I'd take a Drew Brees lead team into the post season over a Grossman or Eli lead team simply from a performance, experience, and leadership standpoint.
Regarding your reference to Haz, I agree. However, I also believe that our opinion about Haz was skewed during that first season for two primary reasons: First, we were just coming off of three very forgetable Mike Ditka coached seasons, sandwiched between the Mora years of Success, and second, our first playoff win ever under Haz.
I don't think any of us knew what was going on behind the scenes that year with the players. I.E. Willie Roaf's wife, etc.
Beyond that, as time showed, Haz was just as stubborn as Mora when it came to protecting his coaches - Mora = Carl Smith - Haz = Venturri.
In addition, Haz never waivered from his belief that talent always supersedes character - That was his demise, IMHO.
As I also stated, I believe the next 4-5 games will really tell us alot about this team and these coaches, but based on what I've seen thus far, when I looked at how Payton has responded to every obstacle thus far that he's been presented with since taking over the Saints, I don't see any of our other coaches (including Mora) coming away with the same results thus far.
Call me optimistic, but I get the feeling I'm looking at an early Billichek coached Pat's team when I see these Saints.
I also see a young Bill Walsh style coach in Payton - no nonsense, smart, and flexible.
I may be wrong and will have to eat these words, but for me thus far, Sean is the coach that will get us where we're trying to go.