Richard Todd anyone? 1984? (2 Viewers)

[Saintman2884]

A few commonalities are 1) that both men came in from AFC teams who made the playoffs a few times with them under center but didn’t win very many of them and 2) both were/are considered hot-and-cold QBs over their careers.

Well, both Todd and Carr's previous teams both made the post-season twice with Todd's Jets making the playoffs in 1981 and 82 (although Jets did have a bit of a magical mini-run to the AFCCG in strike-shortened 1982 season, upsetting L.A. Raiders, 17-14, in the Divisional Round and Todd arguably singlehandedly put Miami in the first SB since 1973 when he threw 4-5 INTs, 3 of which were interrupted by Dolphins' LB A.J. Duhe, its been speculated for the longest time amongst Jets fans that Don Shula, Joe Robbie, and Miami's FO purposely allowed the field-tarps to not cover Orange Bowl the next before the game when a huge severe thunderstorm hit Miami-Dade County and longtime South Florida residents will tell you that in the winter months, there can be a lot of severe thunderstorms that can make a very successful heavy-running attack like 82 Jets had kind of neutralized on a muddy, slick grass stadium and old Orange Bowl was very difficult for both pro and collegiate road teams in both hot and extremely wet weather. Richard Todd was drafted in mid-70's to be essentially the second-coming of Joe Namath and besides the Alabama backgrounds, his career was mostly a disappointment. Living here in Mobile, Ive talked to some of Todd's former HS and college teammates and most of them have said, his biggest weakness was his inability to stay focused despite being hit or sacked a lot, i.e. his mental fragility. It was no secret amongst NFL defenses during his career that you rattled a QB like Todd hard and early, he might settle down but his confidence never fully returned in-game. A similar sentiment was made towards fellow Alabama QB alum Scott Hunter during his pro career.

Carr strikes me as being a bit mentally tougher and IMHO, if he'd been our starting QB maybe with our very good 2018-2020 squads, he would've lit up the score-board and won 11-12 games as Brees' did, but he only looks good if he has great supporting casts, he's not like Brees, or Mahomes now where his FO likes to periodically fork with his great offensive supporting casts and trade away good role players, draft and assume _______ new WR's and RB's will replace or be 60% as good as Colston, Sproles, Moore, to some extent Robert Meachem, Stills because hey, our FO believed Drew could make anybody kook good even if his defenses were sheetty or barely-average.

Carr can't do that but DA assumed after almost a decade that he could, Carr had some great statistical seasons in 2016, 2017, 2019, 2020 and 2021, during that time span, their were a couple of games in each of those seasons that Raiders were winning in the 4th quarter but lost. In 2020, they lost two close home games in Las Vegas (LAC, MIA) that they had leads in and probably should've won, but blew it late or in OT (LAC), Carr had only two winning seasons as Raiders QB and because he suffered an ACL injury in a meaningless late 2016 regular-season game, Oakland sort of limped into WC vs. Texans and got their arses kicked but if one checks the final scores of all Raiders games from 2017-2020, he likely should've more but HC or OC ineptness, or defensive lapses lost Raiders games they should've won.

Oakland/L.A. Raiders franchise reputation or penchant over the past 20 years since losing self-destructing before Super Bowl XXXVII, and Bill Callaghan helping to send All-Pro C Barrett Robbins off the railings to Mexico because he literally changed the team's offensive gameplan night before, has been showcased by an inability to win close games. Which is ironic because the Raiders forebears of the 70's, 80's and early 90's were noted for doing the exact opposite: winning close, contested games. For over 50 years, Raiders were the all-time winniest AFL/NFL franchise in history, from 1963-1981, they didn't have one losing season, and rarely missed the post-season. The only other NFL teams that come close to that same sort of excellence was Dallas and Minnesota from late 60's-early 80's. I think the first long nail in Al Davis and Raiders collective coffins' was after the 1986 season, for the next 6 years, Davis started having this excessive, unnecessary ego trip by demoting and punishing All-Pro players like Marcus Allen and then, Tim Brown. I still to this day don't know WTF Davis issues were with Allen and if he really hated him that much during late 80's, trade Marcus, Al, don't sit on him. I've heard some "juicy gossip" rumors surrounding O.J. and Marcus getting too close and Al disliking it, and well, other things regarding maybe marital infedility perhaps involving Allen and Nicole Brown Simpson,

Then there's Tim Brown and the fact that according to Brown, Al Davis used racial slurs towards him and in his presence multiple times, some of these occasions have been confirmed by former Raiders GM and Packers executive Ron Wolf. Ive never forgiven much less understood Davis' resentment towards Brown, the man was almost a saint off-the-field and did so much great community work in L.A. and in East Bay/ Oakland region, one of the most intelligent, knowledgable, smartest players ever to be involved in this game.

 

[Saintman2884]

There still could be some hope for him.

Right now he is a head case (no literal pun intended). He has been getting beat down behind a poor line, really the same line that has gotten Winston injured twice and has gotten Carr 3 concussions this year so far. He is getting booed by us everytime he touches the ball. He is replacing a once a generation, hall of famer, all time greatest Saint to ever put the jersey on. He has lost Mike Thomas, Sheed (who he had chemistry with) and he really isn’t getting anything from his TE’s. He got into a public spat with his WR1. Things are not going good for him but…….. his worst issue is he has a moron calling plays as an OC.

In the dome when I am watching the game based on formation, players in and down and distance I can tell what’s going to happen. If me as a drunken fan in the stands knows, I am sure guys that get paid to play and have watched the film studying it know darn well what’s comming.

Carr isn’t a great QB he is a decent QB. Right now we are not helping him. Love him or hate him we are stuck with him thanks to the contract. To attempt to fix him we have to get the right coaching staff in here. Last season Russel Wilson looked like wet trash. Sean Payton gets there and by mid season he looked reborn. That happened because Sean can call plays and because Sean holds him accountable. None of this is happening here.

1.) We have to get new coaches in.
2.) Must address the debacle we have as a line.
3.) need to draft a QB if it falls out right this April If not then for sure next April.
4.) find a real TE
5.) get some young blood on defense

We are looking at a legit 2 year rebuild with no guarantee we ever get there.

Right now all we are doing is treading water at the bottom of the pool. We are running out of air.

Compared to his unfortunate, woebegone older brother, David, Derek's actually can say he's had a pretty good career once its all said and done. Then again, being drafted by a new, expansion team with no O-line and zero offensive weapons outside Andre Johnson and being anointed "Franchise Savior" made an already-difficult job next to impossible. The first decent QB the Texans franchise got was Matt Schuab, now that's a NFL QB who was really underrated and who's been forgotten over a decade later as he began his career as Michael Vice's back up in Atlanta, gets traded to Houston before the 2007 season, wins the starting QB, makes Texans respectable by leading them to their first winning season (2009), successive post-season appearances in 2011 and 2012, and got voted to IIRC, 3 Pro Bowls over 7 seasons, goes back to being a clipboard holder in Atlanta again under Matt Ryan.

You don't get voted to 4 Pro Bowls and likely end up passing for over 40,000 passing yards for your career and be called a disappointment.

 

[Saintman2884]

Remember I attended a game in 1984 & the crowd totally turned on Todd & started chanting for Dave Wilson

Bum Phillips thought the quarterback was just that guy that handed it off to your RB 40 times a game

To be fair to Bum, it did work for the most part in his previous HC stint with the Oilers for 6 seasons from 1975-80, especially after drafting human cannon ball Earl Campbell in the first round in 1978 and essentially ran him into the ground, with massive over-use and wear and tear in his first three seasons, 1978-80. Thats not to.say that his Oilers QB, Dan Pastorini, wasnt a decent, maybe even good QB sometimes, but Pastorini's and even later on, Stabler's role in the offense was secondary and both Pastorini and Stabler criticized Bum's 1950's style offensive philosophy as one major factor into why even with a powerful, workhorse RB in Campbell, they could never advance past more multi-faceted, diverse and better talented teams in playoffs like Steelers and Raiders who knew all you had to was stop Campbell and you contained 70% of Houston's offense.

Of course, Bum's teams had great defenses both in Houston and New Orleans, but in early 1980's Saints, a great defense in of itself wasnt going to get you to the post-season alone and the old NFC West was a slaughterhouse division where we played the pre-eminent dynasty, the 49ers, twice a season, during our great late 80's/early 90's run, man it was hard to even break even in that old division.

Bum had every reason, early in 1981, based on prior experiences, he could replicate his enormous previous success in Houston and that the QB wasnt really that important to his schemes, instead of thinking he just got extremely lucky landing a future, HOF RB that kind of made the QB a bit redundant in late 70's Houston.

 

[St.Dan]

I’m enjoying the perspective of the posts. Shows I’m not the only older fan here

Bottom line, Carr is Richard Todd so far. “Mid,” as the kids today like to say. Mid is better than poor, but it won’t be good enough for the playoffs this year.

 

[Stalwart385]

I remember when we were talking about signing Carr, trading for Carr...what our team would look like with Carr and this defense...how all the naysayers said Carr can't win this or that....and we would counter that Carr had never had a top 20 defense ever. I would go to youtube and listen to the guy at the podium or at his church and thought "man, this dude could be the next great FA signing and all these haters will be proven wrong."

I still want to be right about that initial belief...but I have resigned myself to the idea that maybe I was the one with the rose colored glasses.

I don't think it's that. Something is just off. Carr is declining or the whole team is failing.

Carr's red zone performance was never his strong suit. He has a pretty average 4.3% career TD rate. This year though it is 2.8%, that's bottom 5 bad. That's his career low by a large margin. I don't think the rose color glasses or naysayers could predict that kind of drop in output. It's just unfortunate when you get something worse than 9 years of history.

 

[PuddinheadSr]

1984 was my first season with Saints season tickets. No, I didn't get them because I was excited about Richard Todd.