Saints 2013 Draft (1 Viewer)

[TCUDan]

It goes without saying (although all of the television pundits keep repeating it) that it takes a few years to really know how successful a draft was. But my immediate reaction to the 2013 draft is extreme satisfaction.

I know there is a heavy Jarvis Jones camp on the SSF, and he would have been a solid pick, but Kenny Vaccaro at #15 is great value and filled a pressing need. I still do not think the Saints safeties are as bad as last season would indicated (I'm speaking of capability here... I know someone is going to say "you're as bad as you play" or something to that effect), but the fact of the matter is that we are lacking a safety that is equal parts talented and versatile. I thought Vaccaro was the best safety in the draft... talk to me last year, I may have said Eric Reed but I think what Vacarro has shown in terms of coverage (go watch him man up on Tavon Austin during the WVU game) and physicality, he's the most well-rounded safety in the draft.

Armstead and Jenkins were both great value picks, as is Kenny Stills who I fully expect to have an immediate impact... and I do not say that lightly when speaking of 5th round picks. I know that during his three years as a starter he never seemed to break through the production ceiling and, while still productive, never put up elite numbers... but to me that had more to do with who was throwing the ball than who was catching it. He reminds me a lot of a bigger, faster Lance Moore when you observe the excellent body control and hand-eye coordination that he exhibits. Most importantly, he fits the niche of "deep threat" that the Saints are going to be looking for in that 3rd/4th receiver... someone who can pop the top of the defense, and he will be a lot less one-dimensional than Joseph Morgan.

I admittedly do not know much about Rufus Johnson but the logic for drafting him is there. When you get to those late rounds, you're looking at guys with measurables and take chances on smaller school players.

Like I said, time will tell but there have only been a couple of drafts whereI came away extremely pleased. One was 2002, when we drafted Donte Stallworth and Charles Grant in the 1st, LeCharles Bentley in the 2nd, I remember Keyou Craver in the 4th (who I thought was a steal at the time)... and I don't remember all of the picks in between but I was immediately pleased with that draft and those first 3 guys alone went on to have productive careers for the Saints.

The other would be 2006. I wouldn't say I'm quite as excited about this draft as I was about those two (there's no super-stud prospect like a Donte Stallworth or Reggie Bush), but I am still extremely pleased.

Even though it takes a few years to know exactly HOW well you drafted, you can judge it to some degree the day after simply based on value and need. You look at the top 3 picks and all project to be starters in the NFL. Any one of them could end up on the street in 2 years, but they're 3 guys with the measurables and production to be starters. And I really believe that Kenny Stills will be one of the steals of the draft. If he doesn't make a significant contribution on offense this season I will be very surprised.

 

[sammymvpknight]

It really depends on what Ryan asks Vaccaro to do. If he plans on putting him at FS in cover-1, I think that Vaccaro will not play very well. If he plans on playing him manned up against TEs at SS, I believe that he could be good.

That's not to say that Vaccaro couldn't play cover-1 down the road...but right now they should put him in a position to succeed and slowly increase his responsibilities.

But the Saints still need a FS capable of cover-1 either way...unless IAQ is that guy. Jenkins is definitely NOT that guy.

 

[Saint Kamara]

I agree with your assessment of Stills.

He can do what Morgan has not shown the ability to do: catch the short to intermediate pass along with breaking the shell of the defense deep.

Stills landed in the perfect spot with the Saints. He should be excited that if he can have as successful a college career with a regressing Landry Jones, then he could kill it at the NFL level with Drew Brees putting it right where he can go get it. And he can certainly go get the ball. That's his strength.

 

[ndcc]

Great post as usual, Dan.

 

[bornnraisedwhodat]

Thoughts on John Jenkins?

Sent from phone via Tapatalk

 

[JvilleJoe]

TCU, I agree also that it sure looks like the Saints let the draft come to them and got clear value with almost every selection. I also really like the way they leveraged the Ivory trade to get a guy who could be starting for us this year in Jenkins. While I really liked Ivory, the fact was that in this offense there is not going to be that bellweather 20 plus carry a game RB, thus at best Ivory would never give us what Jenkins can on Sundays.
Time will tell, but for a team with only 5 picks and none in the 2nd round, I think Loomis did a great job.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

Yeah the Vacarro pick should pay more immediate dividends than a passrusher. Reason being is that i don't think Passrusher was ever as high on our list as it was for most pundits.

Our problem hasn't been that we don't have passrushers or guys that can rush from the edge...our problem was stopping the run consistently and creating favorable 3rd n longs for these guys to get on the field. The other part was our scheme didn't allow guys like Galette/Tez to see the field because they were tweeners in a 4-3. We were definately not void of passrushers we just needed to find a way to get them on the field.


So we decided to solve both of those problems.

1st thing was to do a scheme switch.

The second was to get bigger up front and make stopping the run a priority(which Ryan does) THat in turn will allow our passrushers more chances to make things happen.

Now with that said we already have 3 potential deadly passrushers in Butler/Junyah/Tez but our coverage ability from the safety position was lacking. Especially SS. The Vacarro pick was a major help for more than one reason.

One of the bigger reasons is when Vacarro finally starts next year middle of this year whenever it will allow us the flexibility to stay in our base defense against some nickel packages.

If we basically blitz from a 5-2 having Two safeties that can man up along with the corners outside allows us to still bring 5 with adequate coverage. You could never "in theory" do that with Harper because he would get picked on because hes a liability.


Regardless of what the pundits say...if the object was to get bigger in this draft then we passed..and that along helps out our passrush because if we can get more 3rd & 6's compared to 3rd & 2's we should see more production from our sack artist. The girth and bigger bodies up front should help that.


Still not sure where i can see Will Smith@ as an OLB and outside of this year im not sure where i see Harper. If hes going to be a package player his salary is very expensive for a guy who can't be a 3down player because of his lack of coverage ability.

 

[Uk Saint]

only problem for me was the rufus pick... Rambo was still on the board and i really think he would have been the better option. With rambo and Vaccaro we migh have had one of the best secondarys in the league.

Furthermore i think Rufus drops later on in the draft and we can trade in and get him...

 

[Whodat GT]

I have to say that right now Vacarro projects as the best pick IMO, because he seems so versatile (in a good sense). I'm no expert but you could see him being the "neutralizer" of other team's best receiving threats (excluding outside receivers) and a good run stopper as well. I don't know what FO can expect from Harper now. Thoughts?
I remember reading Cosell and how he sees players like Austin and Eifert as modern playmakers on one side... and safeties like Vaccaro on the other.

 

[bornnraisedwhodat]

Yeah the Vacarro pick should pay more immediate dividends than a passrusher. Reason being is that i don't think Passrusher was ever as high on our list as it was for most pundits.

Our problem hasn't been that we don't have passrushers or guys that can rush from the edge...our problem was stopping the run consistently and creating favorable 3rd n longs for these guys to get on the field. The other part was our scheme didn't allow guys like Galette/Tez to see the field because they were tweeners in a 4-3. We were definately not void of passrushers we just needed to find a way to get them on the field.

While I agree somewhat, I still think we will be missing a legit pass rusher. Maybe Jones wasnt the guy, but I still believe we are missing "That guy"

I love Junior, Tez and all those guys. I think they will be very good as a commitee. But I still think we need a true edge rusher who can put consistent pressure on the QB, stop the run, and make game changing plays.

 

[mdharper]

I don't think the Saints could have done much better. Certainly better than I would have picked. I think in the Sean Payton era from round three on, the Saints are the most amazing drafters/free agent signers I have ever seen. Kudos to Loomis and Payton for finding the most quality starters from outta nowhere this side of baseball.

The Out-of-nowhere outfit.

But...

It's no fun without a But...

Being a big watcher of the Big 12 (and former Big 12), The only pick I'm uncomfortable with is Kenny Stills. I would have gone with Ryan Swoopes. I understand the pick. Stills was more of a defense stretcher in college and the Saints offense was hamstrung last season because no one was stretching the defenses. Swoopes was rarely stretching defenses in college... But they have the same 40 times. I.E they have the same ability to stretch defenses. Swoopes was getting open in the seams in college much much much more often than Stills. He was also better at getting separation in press coverage. To me that said that Swoopes had a better feel for the game but may have been underutilizing his potential. Stills was better at maximizing his athletic ability but didn't have the feel for the open spots in a defense. I ask you, "Which is more coachable?"

We all like to look back a who we could have drafted in hindsight. This is one I'll be looking at before the fact.

 

[Bourbon]

When you say that you expect Stills to make an impact this season, does that mean you can see him breaking into the top 3 of our WR corp? Or just getting in on 5 wide sets occasionally? I'd love to hear your prediction for the WRs that make the final 52 this season.

I feel like this draft was solid and will fill needs for years to come, even though there isn't a WOW player in the bunch. If we'd kept the 2nd rounder and taken Jamie Collins I'd be over the moon. I think he will be a pro bowler.

 

[mt15]

Thanks, Dan! I sure have a lot of optimism for the coming season. We deserve a good one.

 

[NoleansSaints2526]

This is the best I've ever felt about a Saints draft before they actually hit the field.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

While I agree somewhat, I still think we will be missing a legit pass rusher. Maybe Jones wasnt the guy, but I still believe we are missing "That guy"

I love Junior, Tez and all those guys. I think they will be very good as a commitee. But I still think we need a true edge rusher who can put consistent pressure on the QB, stop the run, and make game changing plays.

Size wise yeah we are missing that guy. I don't think Tez is a pure passrusher but i don't know. Maybe what Rob Ryan saw during the recent camps allowed him to say "I think we have something here"

Could we still use that 1 guy who is 6'5 265 yes and we will probably find him in next years draft if Roofus Johnson doesn't pan out but we can make it by committee this year..


Im going to do a nice write-up when i get a chance but i still don't think that we will be running a 1 gap Defense long term. I think it just allows us to switch schemes without really switching what we are asking guys to do so much as we are asking them to stand in different places.

However by year 2 i think we will be a full out 3-4/4-3/4-6 in the 2005 baltimore mold. This wont look like the texans defense with a small NT and 285lb 3tech. Payton mentioned that Parcells says it takes 2 years to make the full transition. Ryan comes from the Bellichik coaching tree. Taking away the best options etc etc....those are all Bellichik ways of dealing with an Offense.


Now with that being said we will be utilizing some under fronts but Ryans style of D differs very much from Phillips.


i understand peoples frustration with not drafting Jarvis Jones but think of it this way. It appears that our objective was getting bigger. Drafting a 6'2 245 LB that unathletic thats slow didn't fit with that MO.

The prototype for the ROLB in this scheme is a Chandler Jones type. Gotta be a niced size guy that can stand up against the Run #1 but can still rush the passer.

ITs the main reason why im waiting for Martez to breakout.

He has all the measurables of an elite passrusher. His combine results were pretty much equal to Mingos with less agility. Other than that Tez has the longer arms and is stronger and hes NFL ready right now because hes had time in an NFL weight room.

So for everyone screaming we should have still gotten a passrusher a new guy that only has stats in College is just as much of an unknown as the old guys who didn't put up any stats in college. You don't know if one of these new guys will come in and make the impact you want. So i can understand not drafting a passrusher high.......they all had ? marks. Also the way the board feel clearly one of our priorities was getting bigger and faster.

So yes i would have like the Passrusher too but Roofus is one of the biggest sleepers in this draft @DE. So we got good value getting him way in the 6th. Bigger school, bigger name and he could have possibly been a 4th rounder. So even though he wasn't a 1st rounder we still got a pass rusher that might come in and surprise everyone but truthfully i didn't expect Jarvis Jones or Jamie Collins to come right in and make an instant impact starting anyway so depending on who u ask missing out on drafting them in the 1st round wasn't that big of a miss...especially with the unknown.


Safety while not the Sexy pick has the potential to be the most help. Gives us a lot more flexibility and with all the teams we face that have Slot matchups/TE's it will be nice to have a guy like Vacarro who can come in and cover them allowing us to stay in our base or stay big so we aren't putting Smaller Db's on the field and still being left open for the run.

I think stopping the run was one of the bigger equations to getting a better passrush rather than adding a superb passrusher. I would have like one but there wasn't one in this draft and Vaccaro was the TOP rated safety compared to Jarvis being the #2-3 OLB depending on who u ask.