Saints 2013 Draft

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

While I agree somewhat, I still think we will be missing a legit pass rusher. Maybe Jones wasnt the guy, but I still believe we are missing "That guy"

I love Junior, Tez and all those guys. I think they will be very good as a commitee. But I still think we need a true edge rusher who can put consistent pressure on the QB, stop the run, and make game changing plays.

Size wise yeah we are missing that guy. I don't think Tez is a pure passrusher but i don't know. Maybe what Rob Ryan saw during the recent camps allowed him to say "I think we have something here"

Could we still use that 1 guy who is 6'5 265 yes and we will probably find him in next years draft if Roofus Johnson doesn't pan out but we can make it by committee this year..


Im going to do a nice write-up when i get a chance but i still don't think that we will be running a 1 gap Defense long term. I think it just allows us to switch schemes without really switching what we are asking guys to do so much as we are asking them to stand in different places.

However by year 2 i think we will be a full out 3-4/4-3/4-6 in the 2005 baltimore mold. This wont look like the texans defense with a small NT and 285lb 3tech. Payton mentioned that Parcells says it takes 2 years to make the full transition. Ryan comes from the Bellichik coaching tree. Taking away the best options etc etc....those are all Bellichik ways of dealing with an Offense.


Now with that being said we will be utilizing some under fronts but Ryans style of D differs very much from Phillips.


i understand peoples frustration with not drafting Jarvis Jones but think of it this way. It appears that our objective was getting bigger. Drafting a 6'2 245 LB that unathletic thats slow didn't fit with that MO.

The prototype for the ROLB in this scheme is a Chandler Jones type. Gotta be a niced size guy that can stand up against the Run #1 but can still rush the passer.

ITs the main reason why im waiting for Martez to breakout.

He has all the measurables of an elite passrusher. His combine results were pretty much equal to Mingos with less agility. Other than that Tez has the longer arms and is stronger and hes NFL ready right now because hes had time in an NFL weight room.

So for everyone screaming we should have still gotten a passrusher a new guy that only has stats in College is just as much of an unknown as the old guys who didn't put up any stats in college. You don't know if one of these new guys will come in and make the impact you want. So i can understand not drafting a passrusher high.......they all had ? marks. Also the way the board feel clearly one of our priorities was getting bigger and faster.

So yes i would have like the Passrusher too but Roofus is one of the biggest sleepers in this draft @DE. So we got good value getting him way in the 6th. Bigger school, bigger name and he could have possibly been a 4th rounder. So even though he wasn't a 1st rounder we still got a pass rusher that might come in and surprise everyone but truthfully i didn't expect Jarvis Jones or Jamie Collins to come right in and make an instant impact starting anyway so depending on who u ask missing out on drafting them in the 1st round wasn't that big of a miss...especially with the unknown.


Safety while not the Sexy pick has the potential to be the most help. Gives us a lot more flexibility and with all the teams we face that have Slot matchups/TE's it will be nice to have a guy like Vacarro who can come in and cover them allowing us to stay in our base or stay big so we aren't putting Smaller Db's on the field and still being left open for the run.

I think stopping the run was one of the bigger equations to getting a better passrush rather than adding a superb passrusher. I would have like one but there wasn't one in this draft and Vaccaro was the TOP rated safety compared to Jarvis being the #2-3 OLB depending on who u ask.

 

[fr3sh]

We did our homework this draft, and it showed.

 

[SaintJ]

When you have a historically bad defense, and a lot of the starters were veterans with at least two years' experience (and in many cases more), and you have the 15th pick in the draft, the dude you take there needs to be an immediate every-down starter. Period.

If Vaccaro starts at safety day one, fine. If not, they've whiffed.

 

[JMP]

Awesome. A TCUDan post.

-gets some food and begins to read-

 

[Twags14]

When you have a historically bad defense, and a lot of the starters were veterans with at least two years' experience (and in many cases more), and you have the 15th pick in the draft, the dude you take there needs to be an immediate every-down starter. Period.

If Vaccaro starts at safety day one, fine. If not, they've whiffed.

There's no evidence Jarvis Jones would have been a day one starter either. Like someone mentioned, a lot of the top pass rushers were question marks. Vacarro was the safe pick

 

[TCUDan]

Thoughts on John Jenkins?

Sent from phone via Tapatalk

I think as long as Jenkins keeps his weight under control that's a great player. I honestly didn't know if they were going to go in the big, 100% pure run-stuffer direction (had my eye on Jesse Williams), but EJW hit it on the head when he said our issues have had more to do with the inability to stop the run consistently and create favorable passing situations than the presence of players capable of rushing the passer.

I think unless Jenkins shows up out of shape he's pushing for reps this season. I don't think he'll outright beat out Bunkley, but he 20-30 snaps a game sounds reasonable to me. By comparison, I see him being used more than Hicks was last season... and speaking of Hicks, you now have the depth at nose that will free the defense up to move him around.

TCU, I agree also that it sure looks like the Saints let the draft come to them and got clear value with almost every selection. I also really like the way they leveraged the Ivory trade to get a guy who could be starting for us this year in Jenkins. While I really liked Ivory, the fact was that in this offense there is not going to be that bellweather 20 plus carry a game RB, thus at best Ivory would never give us what Jenkins can on Sundays.
Time will tell, but for a team with only 5 picks and none in the 2nd round, I think Loomis did a great job.

The issue with Ivory was that we simply had too many running backs. He took advantage of his opportunities every time he had them, and fans would instantly get back up on the "Give Ivory the ball" train (hard to believe people on the SSF actually wanted to cut him during the preseason... someone dig up those old threads). But then Pierre Thomas would come back and remind us how good he was, and Ingram down the stretch looked as good as Ivory and the team has more invested in him.

Bottom line: Ivory was a UFA next year. The chances of resigning him were nonexistent. It was the right thing to do, we got something for him and he gets the chance to be 'the man' in New York. As long as he stays healthy, he's going to be a fantasy footballers dream come true.

When you say that you expect Stills to make an impact this season, does that mean you can see him breaking into the top 3 of our WR corp? Or just getting in on 5 wide sets occasionally? I'd love to hear your prediction for the WRs that make the final 52 this season.

I feel like this draft was solid and will fill needs for years to come, even though there isn't a WOW player in the bunch. If we'd kept the 2nd rounder and taken Jamie Collins I'd be over the moon. I think he will be a pro bowler.

I think Stills will be in the top 3/4 of the of the rotation. With Henderson gone--and barring a FA signing--everything behind Colston and Moore is wide open. Courtney Roby, who I thought looked great in camp last year and was on the way to becoming a next Lance Moore, was still mostly relegated to special teams last season. Nick Toon is coming off an injury and still an unknown. And Joe Morgan--who is the only other real deep threat--is not nearly as polished and well-rounded a receiver as Stills. I thought Morgan progressed tremendously last season, but he was still very much a niche player--he just improved at tracking the ball down the field and catching those deep pases.

If we were making a depth chart now, I'd have Stills as the #3. Nick Toon SHOULD push him for snaps, but he's no more of a known commodity at this point than Stills is.

Oh and I really wanted Collins, too. To the point where I was hoping we'd find a way to trade up into the 2nd and get him. I think he has a very bright future.

There's no evidence Jarvis Jones would have been a day one starter either. Like someone mentioned, a lot of the top pass rushers were question marks. Vacarro was the safe pick

I think that's what a lot of people are missing. I think it was EJW that pointed out that pass rusher is not a hole, it was addressed during the offseason with Victor Butler. I know none of the current options are bonafide stallions, but the only potential draft picks that truly separated themselves from who we had on hand were Dion Jordan and Ezekial Ansah, and that's because they are physical specimens (you could argue Mingo but I think he's risky).

Jarvis Jones' measurables and production are about the same as Victor Butler's were coming out of college. I think Jones has the intangibles to be a very good player, but I don't see how he would have separated himself from the pack there... that's really putting all your eggs in one rookie basket.

In short, Vacarro has a better shot at impacting the defense this season.

 

[TCUDan]

When you have a historically bad defense, and a lot of the starters were veterans with at least two years' experience (and in many cases more), and you have the 15th pick in the draft, the dude you take there needs to be an immediate every-down starter. Period.

If Vaccaro starts at safety day one, fine. If not, they've whiffed.

Because they took him instead of Jones or because he's not a starter?

I don't agree that that constitutes a whiff. Because if the guy ends up in the Pro Bowl in year 2 and beyond, I think you hit the jackpot.

At the end of the day, I think Vacarro's skill set sets him apart from the safeties we have on hand. I don't believe Jarvis Jones or any pass rusher of value at #15 (Value meaning not a reach at that point) would have separated themselves from who we have on hand.

Don't get me wrong, there will be one drafted in the middle of the 1st round or later that does come out of nowhere and tear it up. But you're relying on projection here... and Vacarro projects as a bigger contributor to our defense than any of the pass rushers at #15 did.

 

[TCUDan]

One thing I'd like to qualify:

When we start talking about the Saints WR situation, vis a vis the depth chart, keep in mind that Jimmy Graham is pretty much a WR... you could even argue that he is the Saints true #1 or 1a w/ Colston. He stays on the field when the Saints spread teams out and I'm sure all of this will be his agent's argument come pay day. Not to mention that with Daniel Graham in the mix, you're talking about possibly even more "2 TE" sets.

So it really comes down to Snaps. Colston and Moore will get the Lions share. After them, I think it's going to be Stills and/or Nick Toon... otherwise you're talking about someone who isn't on the roster yet.

 

[SuperRemo]

only problem for me was the rufus pick... Rambo was still on the board and i really think he would have been the better option. With rambo and Vaccaro we migh have had one of the best secondarys in the league.

Furthermore i think Rufus drops later on in the draft and we can trade in and get him...

Rambo's issue was teams saw a lack of work ethic and guy who takes plays off.

This is why he fell almost 4 roudns from his talent level....

I'm glad we didn't draft that.

Wish we would've gotten a guy like branden jenkins or quantavius smith...