Article Saints Film Room: How everything went wrong before it turned out all right [Film Study + All 22 Notes] (1 Viewer)

[RevDeuceWindham]

As requested, this morning's film study takes a look at the Saints defense from Week 3 against the Falcons. On a happy note it's not all negative. There are several things that have to be fixed, but going against such a dominant receiving group Allen was able to make the adjustments needed to stop the bleeding and the offense pulled out a victory.

Notes:
-Pass Rush improved. Rankins and Onyemata are starting to demand double teams allowing Jordan to have more one on ones like last year.
-Run defense was stellar. The duo above were a big part of this, as was Taylor Stallworth. If I was to pick starters based on just this season's play, Davison would be moved to a back-up role
-A.J. Klein had his second straight strong performance. Charted very few poor attempts from him. Played every snap.
-Demario Davis *copy text from above sentence*
-Kamara is getting tired. The extra snaps and duty seem to be affecting him late in games. He's still stellar, but seems like there's less juice. But is there a better receiving RB in the NFL? nah (not included in article)
-Kamara dominates in outside zone runs, but still needs refinement when working inside and in tighter quarters when he can't utilize his natural one cut ability. (not included in article).
-Initially I thought LeRibeus did a stellar job in Peat's absence. After charting him, he didn't do as great as I thought. Good fill in, but need Peat back. (not included in article)
-Michael Thomas ran the best pivot route of anyone WR in the NFL this year (not included in article)
-Marcus Davenport is winning with his freakish athletic ability, but is still working to fix some of the flaws in his game. 1st NFL sack was a nice one.
-M. Lattimore improved from slow start to season. Still not playing to the level of 2017 (refer to the Yankee Concept piece in the article)
-Fans around social media have to stop lumping Vonn Bell into the "secondary is trash" tweets/posts/etc. He's quietly having a good season.



Saints Film Room: How everything went wrong before it turned...

 

[saints4life25]

Great write up Deuce. We appreciate your contributions!

 

[superchuck500]

Good stuff Rev, especially about the job the d-tackles are doing. Onyemata is really coming into his own (but for a few costly penalties).

I thought Kamara looked strong in the fourth - it seemed that our key players all stepped up their game down the stretch. So it's curious to see that Kamara looked gassed to you, was it simply that he was worn out but the Falcons resistance had fallen apart by the second half of the 4th quarter?

Either way, one more week and then Ingram will be able to cut Kamara's workload. I can't wait.

 

[RevDeuceWindham]

Good stuff Rev, especially about the job the d-tackles are doing. Onyemata is really coming into his own (but for a few costly penalties).

I thought Kamara looked strong in the fourth - it seemed that our key players all stepped up their game down the stretch. So it's curious to see that Kamara looked gassed to you, was it simply that he was worn out but the Falcons resistance had fallen apart by the second half of the 4th quarter?

Either way, one more week and then Ingram will be able to cut Kamara's workload. I can't wait.

Well, first off Alvin Kamara tired is still better than most RBs at 100%, so our perception of him is a bit skewed by how good he is. But, things I'm referring to are like him standing instead of running full routes when he's a backside player (these plays aren't designed to go his direction, but generally you'd see him complete the route anyway). His YAC ability seemed a bit diminished. Still had an absolutely stellar game, but watching it, I can see why having a guy like Ingram to knock his snap total down 15-20 snaps can be really beneficial as the season goes on.

Keep in mind, these 3 games are the only games he's been a bell cow in several years.

 

[Swimmer]

Well, first off, keep in mind that Alvin Kamara tired is still better than most RBs at 100%, so our perception of him is a bit skewed by how good he is. But, things I'm referring to are like him standing instead of running full routes when he's a backside player (these plays aren't designed to go his direction, but generally you'd see him complete the route anyway). His YAC ability seemed a bit diminished. Still had an absolutely stellar game, but watching it, I can see why having a guy like Ingram to knock his snap total down 15-20 snaps can be really beneficial as the season goes on.

Keep in mind, these 3 games are the only games he's been a bell cow in several years.

Rev - Real quality stuff as always -thanks. There's another problem with a tired Kamara that you are aware of. Tired players are much more susceptible to injury and we sure want to keep Kamara healthy.

 

[football]

Yeah...I don't know why people gives Vonn Bell such a hard time. He has been solid. Not the greatest cover safety but he has been around plays. Hey Rev...my eyes may be different, but don't you think Davenport is bull rushing too much and may need to do the up and under move or something else to get to the quarterback? I feel he needs to get off his blockers quicker than what he has been doing. I see the potential there though.

 

[RevDeuceWindham]

Yeah...I don't know why people gives Vonn Bell such a hard time. He has been solid. Not the greatest cover safety but he has been around plays. Hey Rev...my eyes may be different, but don't you think Davenport is bull rushing too much and may need to do the up and under move or something else to get to the quarterback? I feel he needs to get off his blockers quicker than what he has been doing. I see the potential there though.

Well, one of the things I noted in my scouting report (included in the article) is that coming out of college he didn't have a full move set or come with a pass rush plan. A lot of his pass rushes are him "winging it" which actually is kind of impressive considering how well he's doing pressure wise. Currently have him charted with 7 pressures on 80 snaps, which is a pretty good ratio. He'll need to continue to grown and work on his moves, and this is one of the reasons he was hit with the "raw" label in both my scouting report in everyone else's.

 

[football]

Thanks Rev.. And yes he is still learning and gaining more confidence. I see an improvement each week.

 

[Big_L]

That bull rush is a monster though. Did he push an ATL lineman into Matty's lap? I saw AK taking in oxygen a few times, so I'm sure he's tired. With all that being said, our Saints beat ATL, now on to the NY Giants . . . Barkley to the outside is a little concerning, as is the long ball to whomever they throw out there at WR opposite OBJ.

 

[SaintJ]

Well, first off Alvin Kamara tired is still better than most RBs at 100%, so our perception of him is a bit skewed by how good he is. But, things I'm referring to are like him standing instead of running full routes when he's a backside player (these plays aren't designed to go his direction, but generally you'd see him complete the route anyway). His YAC ability seemed a bit diminished. Still had an absolutely stellar game, but watching it, I can see why having a guy like Ingram to knock his snap total down 15-20 snaps can be really beneficial as the season goes on.

Keep in mind, these 3 games are the only games he's been a bell cow in several years.

To be fair to Payton, his usage in the first two games (17 and 19 touches, respectively) was right in line with his usage at the end of last year with Ingram: in the last five games of 2017 (including the two playoff games) his touches were 18-19-15-11-15. Also, Kamara only had 14 touches with 14 minutes to go, then ended up with 24 touches in regulation, and seven more in OT, so Payton was actually a lot more disciplined than I realized; clearly, the game situation dictated more usage for this once, and I think it was worth it to watch us grind out three fabulous TD drives (8/75, 11/81, 15/80) to put the Falcons away.

Now there's certainly more to this than touches, because when he's in (which was far more than usual), he's running a route, or pass blocking, and that's effort, but at least he's not as exposed to a big hit.

I still have PTSD from Carl Smith giving 5-9 Dalton Hilliard the ball 396 times in 1989 after we lost Rueben Mayes for the year (in camp, IIRC), and Hilliard scored 18 TDs..... But we missed the playoffs anyway (actually were 6-7 before benching Hebert and finishing 9-7), and at age 25 Hilliard was cooked, and only scored 16 TDs for the rest of his career.

So yes, in general 20 touches a game is plenty for Alvin Kamara. Can't wait to get Ingram back.

 

[RevDeuceWindham]

To be fair to Payton, his usage in the first two games (17 and 19 touches, respectively) was right in line with his usage at the end of last year with Ingram: in the last five games of 2017 (including the two playoff games) his touches were 18-19-15-11-15. Also, Kamara only had 14 touches with 14 minutes to go, then ended up with 24 touches in regulation, and seven more in OT, so Payton was actually a lot more disciplined than I realized; clearly, the game situation dictated more usage for this once, and I think it was worth it to watch us grind out three fabulous TD drives (8/75, 11/81, 15/80) to put the Falcons away.

Now there's certainly more to this than touches, because when he's in (which was far more than usual), he's running a route, or pass blocking, and that's effort, but at least he's not as exposed to a big hit.

I still have PTSD from Carl Smith giving 5-9 Dalton Hilliard the ball 396 times in 1989 after we lost Rueben Mayes for the year (in camp, IIRC), and Hilliard scored 18 TDs..... But we missed the playoffs anyway (actually were 6-7 before benching Hebert and finishing 9-7), and at age 25 Hilliard was cooked, and only scored 16 TDs for the rest of his career.

So yes, in general 20 touches a game is plenty for Alvin Kamara. Can't wait to get Ingram back.

Remember touches aren't the same as snaps. (These are snap counts on offense). We're talking about a player who isn't used to see this much time on the field. Being tired can make you more prone to injuries, as well as potentially diminishing your performance. There's a reason Payton does want to get those numbers back down and is worried about force feeding him.

2018: Kamara Snap counts
Week 1: 52 (81%)
Week 2: 51 (77%)
Week 3: 67 (85%)

2017: Kamara Snap counts
Week 16: 37 (58%)
Week 17: 31 (53%)
Wild Card: 37 (64%)
Divisional: 45 (66%)

 

[saints4life25]

That bull rush is a monster though. Did he push an ATL lineman into Matty's lap? I saw AK taking in oxygen a few times, so I'm sure he's tired. With all that being said, our Saints beat ATL, now on to the NY Giants . . . Barkley to the outside is a little concerning, as is the long ball to whomever they throw out there at WR opposite OBJ.

Twice, actually lol.

View: https://twitter.com/Saints/status/1043919925759242241?s=19


View: https://twitter.com/JoeCaygle/status/1044389401168629760?s=19

 

[RevDeuceWindham]

Thanks for sharing that Saints 4 life!

 

[bigdog]

Two things noted that you pointed out that looked like they really helped the defense. Klein actually looked good as a LB in plugging holes and shooting gaps to make stops on defense. He easily had his best game, looked like the player they were looking to get when they signed him. Also, Stallworth looks like the run stuffer the Saints have been needing. He ties up 2 blockers and is almost impossible to move out of the middle. He even manages to get into the backfield on occasion blowing up plays. Think he ends up a starter at least on running downs. And thanks for your tape study. it's good stuff.

 

[trux]

Rev , I know we want to lump this onto DA (and it probably is his responsibility as DC and Payton as HC, too) but where is Aaron Glenn / position coaches in all this? Why can’t he serve as a mediator between the players and the DCs complicated scheme? Tell DA he’s confusing the hell out of the guys and they need to simplify etc. to put players in the best position to succeed. Thanks for your great work!