Since when does 7 games define your career? (1 Viewer)

[BoNcHiE]

I don't get what were argueing about. I heard what Sean said. He did not call Bush a bust, he simply said as of now Maroney would go ahead of bush if people had a chance to see these first 7 games. Its mainly a plug on Maroney because he almost didn't even make it to the first round, not on the fact that Bush isn't doing what he was thought to do. Bush would still be a top pick.

Believe or not Bush will probably not live up to the total hype and there will probably end up being RB's better then him. Thats not saying hes not an amazing player or will be. We can't take it so personally when someone suggest that just maybe someone is better then reggie bush and will be better then bush over the long run.

 

[Ruprict]

Of course not. SEC players rarely ever win the Heisman. Take every starting RB and QB in the SEC and put them on Ohio State or USC and alot of them win a Heisman. Your argument doesn't hold water.

What argument? I didn't realize I was making an argument.

My point is the production we are geting from Bush is exactly what I thought we'd be getting.

Anybody that thought he was going to come in and dominate the NFL doesn't know much about football, or they live out in California in LA LA land.

 

[Ti Rider]

My assessment of Bush 7 games into his professional career -

Pros - Bush is huge asset in the passing game out of the backfield. He is surehanded as any receiver in the NFL and defenders have to respect him in space. Bush also commands the attention of opposing defenders and defense co ordinators. So much so he's so far made a very effective "decoy". Bush has played part in every victory so far. He also bailed the team out with his punt return against the Bucs.

Cons - Bush has also been a major factor in every defeat as well. Against the Panthers he made a game changing fumble inside the Panthers twenty. Against the Ravens he fumbled inside the Saints thirty and threw a INT in the endzone. At this point he hasn't been effective running out of the backfield. He's arm tackled easily or gives ground trying to make a move (it worked against for him in college but pros are just too fast). He needs to square his shoulders and go forward 99% of the time (he'll learn).

Final - Bush is having a decent rookie season. Not the spectacular highlight show we thought we were getting but he's been an effective receiver/versatile weapon. I'm not sure Bush will ever be a pure 25-30 rushes, "carry the load" type of back but is already comparable to Brian Westbrook. There are points in games where it seems to me Coach Payton gets a little too enamored with using Bush when Deuce's power/speed would be more effective. I really hope Bush appreciates his position on the Saints, if he had been picked #1 overall by the atrocious Texans everyone would be calling him the biggest "bust" in a decade.....

 

[talk2]

LPaulT and Waymer hit the nail right on the head. Couldn't have been said better.

 

[The Mongoose]

I don't understand why people react so vehemently to fair, honest criticism of one of our guys. What is there to be defensive about, to the extent that you'd call someone a hater or bandwagoner?

As a Saints fan, I want Reggie to be awesome. I want him to be the man, the phenom, the game changer we thought he'd be.

But he hasn't shown us any evidence that he will be that. All we have seen is expectations -- from us, from the media, and from opposing defenses who are currently showing him a lot of respect. What I'm worried about is the league figuring out that our emporer has no clothes. Yes, right now Reggie is a great decoy. How long will that be the case? How many games of mediocre numbers and no highlights will it take before teams treat him like an ordinary player?

Of course I'm rooting for Reggie a bunch. I'm hopeful that he will be the pimp I thought he would be. The question I'm asking myself is whether or not I have seen any evidence to prove my hopes are correct. The resultant question is, have I seen any evidence that he won't be the phenom.

Being honest with myself here (not hating, not bandwagon jumping), it certainly seems like there is more evidence to indicate that he will not be the impact player I thought he would be.

What's that evidence? Mostly, it's the fact that other running backs, even small ones, don't usually need time to be great runners in the NFL. Pass blocking takes time. Picking up blitzes takes time. Getting used to the length of the season takes time. But running the ball? Running backs usually get this pretty quick. Reggie runs sideways out of bounds.

Honsestly, seven games isn't enough time to figure out not to run straight out of bounds?

I thought after the Tampa game that Reggie had gained some confidence in his ability to create contact and drive people instead of trying to run around them, but he apparently still hasn't got it.

He runs like he has flags on his waist that can't get pulled, not like he's playing tackle football.

By no means am I ready to abandon Reggie as a weapon in this offense, but for the time being I say we pound Deuce, if he's healthy enough.

 

[thunderkyss]

On the other hand, I remember all the attention that Ricky Williams got as a rookie, and it seemed that almost every week someone was trying to take him out of the game. Reggie is a bit like Williams was--it's like he has a target on his back. Eventually, the target left Williams, and it will leave Bush as well.

This is true..... Ricky did have a bit of hype & controversy around him similar to what Bush is seeing..

Ricky got hurt his first, second, and third year he was in the league, after never having an injury @ UT. He is then traded to Miami, and he goes off... then takes off..... comes back, and has a monster year again...... then takes off again....

I still think Ricky would be the best RB in the league if he were playing today.

But hopefully Reggie won't have to go through all that before the "target" is off his back.

 

[jlam]

I don't understand why people react so vehemently to fair, honest criticism of one of our guys. What is there to be defensive about, to the extent that you'd call someone a hater or bandwagoner?

As a Saints fan, I want Reggie to be awesome. I want him to be the man, the phenom, the game changer we thought he'd be.

But he hasn't shown us any evidence that he will be that. All we have seen is expectations -- from us, from the media, and from opposing defenses who are currently showing him a lot of respect. What I'm worried about is the league figuring out that our emporer has no clothes. Yes, right now Reggie is a great decoy. How long will that be the case? How many games of mediocre numbers and no highlights will it take before teams treat him like an ordinary player?

Of course I'm rooting for Reggie a bunch. I'm hopeful that he will be the pimp I thought he would be. The question I'm asking myself is whether or not I have seen any evidence to prove my hopes are correct. The resultant question is, have I seen any evidence that he won't be the phenom.

Being honest with myself here (not hating, not bandwagon jumping), it certainly seems like there is more evidence to indicate that he will not be the impact player I thought he would be.

What's that evidence? Mostly, it's the fact that other running backs, even small ones, don't usually need time to be great runners in the NFL. Pass blocking takes time. Picking up blitzes takes time. Getting used to the length of the season takes time. But running the ball? Running backs usually get this pretty quick. Reggie runs sideways out of bounds.

Honsestly, seven games isn't enough time to figure out not to run straight out of bounds?

I thought after the Tampa game that Reggie had gained some confidence in his ability to create contact and drive people instead of trying to run around them, but he apparently still hasn't got it.

He runs like he has flags on his waist that can't get pulled, not like he's playing tackle football.

By no means am I ready to abandon Reggie as a weapon in this offense, but for the time being I say we pound Deuce, if he's healthy enough.

I don't beleive it's posts such as yours that have people riled up. While I tend to have a little more faith in the fact that Reggie will break his bad habits as a runner, I can certainly understand your concern and appreciate you taking the time to put your opinion into a logical, well-reasoned expression. Though we may not share the exact same opinion, you make a compelling case. I think it's more likely posts such as these that get "vehement" reactions.

Its not rocket science people

its rushing its not that hard

If duece was 100% he would have 100 yard games

Theres no excuse for reggie, he's scared

 

[VDK]

Of course not. SEC players rarely ever win the Heisman. Take every starting RB and QB in the SEC and put them on Ohio State or USC and alot of them win a Heisman. Your argument doesn't hold water.

As for Reggie, look at LT. He averaged 3.8 per carry as a rookie. And he didn't share carries with a Deuce McAllister. No RB I've ever seen or heard of did great on 10 carries. There's a reason many RB thrive in the 4th quarter: they get into a groove and the defense wears down.

Maroney runs behind a better OLine, and is the #1 RB for the Pats (1 less carry than Deuce thus far with Dillon at 85, several more than Reggie). He gets more opportunities to run than Reggie.

And Deuce SHOULD be better than Reggie. He's a veteran who has proven he can produce in the NFL. It's not like he's a scrub we signed during the be week to fill a gap. Deuce was also a 1st-round pick!

I'd love to see Payton tailor our rushing attack to who we play. For instance, against the Ravens use Deuce at RB and motion Reggie out to WR or only pass it to Reggie. Running him at Baltimore won't work. But a team like Cleveland is better for Reggie to run on so use him more at RB. It just doesn't make sense to send Reggie out there when he can't do it. Our OLine can't muscle a superior defense in the running game.

I surely hope fans don't think that Bush is going to be a workhorse back? Why would you think this? He wasn't in college. He shared time with White and now in pros he's sharing time with Duece. He's not a 20-25 rushes a game back, folks. This is not to say that he can't be a superstar. His versatility is what will make him special.

 

[Gadget]

I HATE Sean Salisbury. He just said that if the draft were today, Maroney should be drafted ahead of Bush. What an idiodic statement. Sure, Maroney has been more productive than Bush to this point, but come on. Bush is light years ahead of Maroney in terms of talent. Once he gets adjusted and gets some good run blocking, he will make Salisbury look like a fool yet again.

consider the source.

 

[marccooper]

I dont think it is fair to say that RB is such an easy position that players should not require any time to adjust to the position in the NFL. Maybe if they are straight ahead bruising runners or come into a great readymade system or a system similar to their college team that is true. I think it depends on their particular skills and the situation. Supposing that Reggie Bush's best skill is his escapability and that NFL defenders are faster, maybe it will take time for him to adjust his reaction time to them and escape effectively. Reggie Bush does not just run straight ahead, he thinks, constantly makes decisions of which direction to go with his top speed and maneuverability. The defenders are faster now so he has to react faster. That could take time, but qbs, linebackers, running backs, etc all have to do it and some improve even after 7 whole games.

Also, Bush is not a midget. In theory if he cannot get faster he could try to get bigger without getting slower. I would not recommend it at this point but it is an option if his career has setbacks and he wants to try a different way of being a feature back. Bush is listed at 6'0 and all finesse backs we are comparing him to are 5'8-5'10, though I do not know if their measurements are more accurate.

Maybe Bush would be picked a little lower. Probably not too much lower though because he showed a lot of potential in college and can be a very exciting player. But remember all the hype on another USC talent the year before, Mike Williams. The Lions took him #10 in the first round and many said he would be great. He had the size, hands, and big play ability if not the speed. However, he was a bust. Now imagine everything Mike Williams was every hyped to be and everything his biggest fans thought he could possibly do in his rookie season. Then subtract attitude and add speed. This is Marques Colston. If the draft were repeated today Marques Colston would be selected no later than by SF at #6 overall. I think Reggie Bush would still go somewhere in the top 5. Who knows. The Texans might take a QB. It would be a very different draft. We might be tempted to look at Ferguson, Hawk, or Colston instead, but I am happy that the draft was in April because we got Bush and Colston.